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Buying my first headphones - please help me navigate this massive world of audio equipment

Bungcake

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Hello!

First of all, I am not an audiophile. Secondly, I am not sure if this is the right place to ask, but at the moment I am so lost, and it seems the more I try to research stuff, the more confused I get. So, here's the deal:
I am looking at buying my first set of headphones, I've only ever owned gaming headsets (mainly Astro) and a wireless Samsung headset.
I have a budget of around 5-600$, and I live in Norway, so you can just go ahead and assume I probably have to pay more for everything.
This budget needs to cover something I can use for gaming, music and the odd movie. I listen to just about every genre, but more rock and hiphop compared to jazz and classical. I will not be taking these "on the road", as I am buying a set of IEMs that'll cover that. They will be connected to a PC with a brand new MSI x570 Tomahawk MB. I don't know what kind of sound card this MB has, and I can't seem to find the information anywhere.

Now, I had originally decided to go for the new-ish HD 560S, but I am having second thoughts. I fear I might find them a bit...boring? People are saying they're good, but lack a little punch at the lower end. I'm also looking at a DAC or AMP, but there are so many options out there I am starting to go a bit crazy. At this point I don't even know if I need a DAC/AMP or should just use the entire budget on the actual headphones.
I've also read that sound staging is important to look at for gaming purposes, but haven't really been able to utilize this information in any way shape or form.

I am reaching out to you guys with a hope that someone will just go "right, you need to get this, that and those for this reason!".

Thanks a bunch in advance!
 

A Surfer

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The headphone is the most important part of the chain, spend there first. Research your needs, where possible audition some headphones. I have owned quite a few headphones in my day, that doesn't make me an expert, certainly not an expert in what you will like, but I have enough experience to speak with some degree of confidence.

I am going to presume that you need a closed headphone to minimize how much sound leaks out that might disturb others. If so there are quite a few excellent choices, and you should also seriously consider the used market in addition to new retail offerings. It sounds like you might like a contemporary consumer tuning with a U shaped frequency response. It might even be advisable to an extent based on what you are describing. That means you have some emphasis in both the lower and upper frequencies with a modest de-emphasis (ideally) in the mids. Mids are very important, but they can get shouty and based on the genres you described, I expect too much emphasis on mids will actually make the headphone fatiguing.

My advice is to post more information about what volume level you listen at, how long you like to listen, what setting and some examples of the music that you like. The newer Sony Z7 II would be something I would seriously look into if I was considering closed headphones, but there are so many choices as you noted. If you have access to Amazon and can buy and try, that is a great thing and I would audition up to two headphones at a time if you can afford to do so given that Amazon typically has very good return policies.

Anyway, literally too many choices, but fortunately for you there are many very good choices.
 

maverickronin

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Probably the first question is: Open or closed?

Do you need the headphones to block out background noise or will other other people be in the same room when you use them?
 
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Bungcake

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Thanks for the quick and informative response @A Surfer ! What you're saying about the tuning makes sense to me, and from what you're describing it sounds to be right up my alley! I'll clear up a few of the things you mentioned:

It doesn't need to be a closed headphone. My boss / girlfriend has graciously let me set up my own room in our house, so I won't have to worry about sound leaking!
I am up for buying used, but there aren't that many being sold used in Norway. I also do not have access to Amazon unfortunately.

Now when it comes to volume levels, I honestly don't know how to respond to this. Not because your question is dumb or anything, but because I don't know how to actually respond. I like to crank it up, but at the same time I am very aware of the risk of tinnitus and usually contain the volume somewhat. As for the music I listen to, it's pretty much everything from Lynyrd Skynyrd to Yelawolf. I probably should've emphasised the gaming aspect - because this is probably going to be the use case atleast 60% of the time. And for gaming I can probably go at it for 4-5 hours in one stretch during weekends. Music on the other hand is probably atleast half that before taking a break.
 

maverickronin

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It doesn't need to be a closed headphone. My boss / girlfriend has graciously let me set up my own room in our house, so I won't have to worry about sound leaking!

Next questions is what kind of games? Do you need positional audio to hear people sneaking up behind you?
 

A Surfer

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Thanks for the additional feedback. As someone who does not game, beyond knowing that comfort is important, not my area of knowledge. I have followed many threads where gaming and headphones are concerned and it seems to me that closed back designs still carry the day, but that may be more about controlling the sound leakage over anything else. I would imagine that a nice open back design (and I have owned many) would work well for the spatial qualities of gaming, and of course music, but you almost always give up a little in terms of impact as compared with a comparable closed back design. Espescially if you are keeping the volume down, a slight consumer tuning where the mid bass is a little more prominent might be very helpful.
 
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Bungcake

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Next questions is what kind of games? Do you need positional audio to hear people sneaking up behind you?

Sorry for not bringing this info out in the original post. Yes, I normally play games where positional audio would be very beneficial!

Thanks for the additional feedback. [...] Espescially if you are keeping the volume down, a slight consumer tuning where the mid bass is a little more prominent might be very helpful.

Thanks a bunch for your inputs, atleast now I have a set tuning to look for when shopping for headphones! Any pointers to my DAC/AMP predicament, or will this be very much depending on what kind of headphones I go for?
 

A Surfer

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Many DACs and amps are capable of transparent audio reproduction. It will to some extent depend on the headphone that you buy, but really the majority of the JDS, Schiit, Topping, SMSL, Gustard that you see reviewed here this last year are quite capable. I would concentrate on the headphone signature first knowing that finding capable electronics to drive it well will not be hard. It is the headphone that matters far more than anything else. nail that and you are on your way to a great little system.
 
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maverickronin

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Sorry for not bringing this info out in the original post. Yes, I normally play games where positional audio would be very beneficial!

Haven't heard the Senn HD560 yet but FWIR it sounds like a good choice for gaming.

Other common choices for mixed gaming and hifi are the AKG 700 series (701, 702, 7XX, 712) and the Beyerdynamic DT990 which both throw good soundstages. The 990 are more on the "fun" side with booted bass and treble.

Any pointers to my DAC/AMP predicament, or will this be very much depending on what kind of headphones I chose?

I'd guess that local availability might be the biggest issue. Some of the more popular brands of low cost/high performance headphone amps and DACs are American with little or no European distribution. I'd guess you'd have better luck finding a local retailer stocking some of the good Chinese brands like Topping or SMSL. I'm sure there are some high value European brands too, but off the top of my head I can't thing of any that have been reviewed here. Most of the European stuff that make it's way over here is more up market.

Also, If your motherboard's audio is clean enough, you may end up being fine with just an amp.
 

DuxServit

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Now, I had originally decided to go for the new-ish HD 560S, but I am having second thoughts.

I recommend the Senn HD650 because it suitably covers a great range of music. Occasionally Amazon has them for around $300.
 
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Bungcake

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Thanks for the suggestions guys!

@maverickronin
Just throwing this one out there to figure out if I am missing something: FiiO K3. This seems to be a DAC, but it's also listed as a headphone amp. Is it both, and would this do me any good at an entry level? Or am I better off buying a dedicated AMP and just let the mobo do the sound processing?
I had actually been looking at the DT990s, but sort of threw them out based on them being a bit on the cheaper side, which I realise is absolutely horrible reasoning.

@DuxServit
Unfortunately Amazon isn't available to me, and the HD650s would actually bring me up to a Sundara-price level. Which is fine, but will leave me with nothing for AMP or DAC.
 

maverickronin

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Just throwing this one out there to figure out if I am missing something: FiiO K3. This seems to be a DAC, but it's also listed as a headphone amp. Is it both, and would this do me any good at an entry level? Or am I better off buying a dedicated AMP and just let the mobo do the sound processing?

It's an AIO (all in one) with both. The headamp section is a little weak though so it may or may not get loud enough for you depending on which headphones you end up with, how loud you listen, and what you listen to. I think it's intended to me a transportable device to use with more efficient headphones.

OTOH, something like the Topping L30 will drive almost anything you can throw at it for not a lot money. If you motherboard's line out is already clean you could skip a separate DAC. If it's got noise on it or something you could add a Topping D10S or E30 DAC depending on which features you need.

IIRC SMSL also has some AIOs with better headamps than the Fiio but the styling is a little unusual so you may or may not want it on your desk.

I had actually been looking at the DT990s, but sort of threw them out based on them being a bit on the cheaper side, which I realise is absolutely horrible reasoning.

There's also the DT1990 which some people say is a step up. I've never ABed them directly so I couldn't say. Here's @solderdude's take.
 

LightninBoy

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I'll make this simple. Here is what to look for in headphones IMO ...

1. Comfort
2. Frequency response mostly follows the Harman curve. This is a good (not perfect) starting point that you can easily tweak with EQ. Here's a good resource ranking headphones by their adherence to the Harman curve: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/RANKING.md
3. Low distortion -In general, headphone distortion tend to be good. The differences typically are in the bass region where open designs have rising distortion in the bass and closed designs typically do not. You can find distortion measurements all over the web.

#1 is far and away the most important. #2 means you can live with the sound without EQ. #3 means you have plenty of headroom to EQ to exactly your preferred sound when EQ is available.

You should be able to optimize all 3 of these factors for well under your budget. For example, looking at the current market, the AKG K371 headphones appear to check all the boxes at a very reasonable price of around $150.
 

Crane

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I'd recommend looking for a local store if possible to at least test out headphones, that said if nothing is around it's always good to look at the frequency response, people's impressions, and what target you are looking for in a headphone (use case and what you enjoy , higher bass/ details/etc).

The Harman curve is a good start but it's based on a test done on a group of people with the majority preferring that certain response curve. It doesn't account for everything in a headphone. i would suggest you look at what you want and possible get different headphones for use case scenario,

i would get different headphones for different uses, if positional audio for gaming you should look for soundstage and boosted uppermid/lower treble around 2k-8k hz. You really don't want too much of low end for that type of gaming here are some good ones.

AKG 700 series
Philips SHP9500 (Legendary and cheap)
Sennheiser HD560
 
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Bungcake

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Thank you very much for the advices and inputs guys! I think I'll try out the DT1990's with a Topping DX3 Pro. From what I've read the DT1990 requires some EQ tuning to get rid of some of the more intense high freq. spikes, but I've also read they offer a decent bit of punch and won't feel as boring, which is what I fear with the more "audiophile" headphones out there.

I am also considering the Sundaras, but CQ worries me. I am also worried about how they perform in FPS games, but to be fair I do have a decent set of Astro gaming headset which would cover my needs in that area anyway.
You guys haven't mentioned the Sundaras, and am I right in thinking this is mainly because of their performance for gaming, or is it a sharing in my worry about the CQ and quality of the product?
 

maverickronin

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You guys haven't mentioned the Sundaras, and am I right in thinking this is mainly because of their performance for gaming, or is it a sharing in my worry about the CQ and quality of the product?

Personally it's because I find it difficult to keep up with their constant model changes and silent revisions.
 

maverickronin

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Why does having a PC mean you can't use them?

For Gaming and Movies, I imagine these are fantastic hence my comment.

Because the spatial audio doesn't work outside of Apple's walled garden.
 
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