Buying advice - Ascilab / Audio First / Genelec

[TubeNoob]

KEF stuff look really nice imo and i think they have grilles too. What do you mean by state of the art though? What is it that you actually want?

The R11 Meta goes deep, has decently controlled directivity and can get as loud as you want. The Reference 1 Meta is smaller, is one of the most beautiful speakers (imo) and still packs a punch in terms of loudness and the directivity is well controlled as well. The low end extension isn't that nice though i think.

I'd personally get a pair of Ascilab A6Bs and pair them with a pair of Arendal 1961 1S or 1V Subs if i had the budget and call it a day. I don't think one can necessarily do much better than that. Supremely low distortion, low end is taken care of with the subs and they look nice as well. And another choice is the Reference 1 Meta with those Arendal subs OR a pair of KC92 if you dont have space for big subs. Dream setup

What is your distance from the speakers though? and what would be the spacing between them? Ideally you'd form an equilateral triangle. As others have said, you don't really need the big boys, especially if you're open to subwoofers. Bigger stuff usually just allows deeper bass and louder sounds. I'm not too knowledgeable on the cardioid speakers but based on Erin's measurements of his predicted and in room responses of the Kii Three and D&D 8C, i don't really think it matters too much. Cardioid speakers are less bad than normal ones but it won't fix a bad room completely and you'll still get some ugly nulls so i don't really care too much about em. Cool tech but nothing a pair of subs can't fix

Speakers are theoretically about 1.5metres apart, listening distance I haven’t measured but I’d guess… much more. 2.5 metres. Shape/use of the room makes the triangle impossible. I DO want the deep deep bass, just, relatively quietly

 

[TubeNoob]

That looks like the sitting room in a British terraced flat.

If so left and right of this picture you'll have your neighbours' sitting rooms.

I know because I used to live in one, and I could hear my two neighbours sneezing in their flats let alone watching Black Mirror's episodes on the iPlayer.

Perhaps consider something that plays well at low volume otherwise you might end up limiting your enjoyment of the setup due to your neighbours' frequent complaints.

Definitely after one that play well at low volume, though it’s actually very quiet between us and the neighbours. Unless maybe they’re quiet, and I am the nuisance neighbour they seethe about

 

[Jiraya369]

Speakers are theoretically about 1.5metres apart, listening distance I haven’t measured but I’d guess… much more. 2.5 metres. Shape/use of the room makes the triangle impossible. I DO want the deep deep bass, just, relatively quietly

any of the speakers i mentioned will be more than good enough and near endgame

 

[Marc v E]

View attachment 499215

Mounting Genelecs is very underrated imo. These are the 8330a. I hope to upgrade to the 8341a soon.

View attachment 499213

I agree. This would be a great looking and sounding solution.
Generally speaking, based on pictures, I think genelecs look better wall mounted than on stands.

You actually gave me an idea when upgrading speakers for my desktop.
It makes a lot of sense to wall mount them too.

 

[dziemian]

Consider Neuman Kh120II or KH150. Small an white colour (wife friendly), childproof (metal mesh securing tweeter and midwoofer), powerful enough for your room ( I am using them in 4x5m room), small enough not to annoy wife, add Dirac Live and sub if needed. I had large Geithain RL901 once here but prefer smaller speakers now. 4 subs in the ceiling corners. Yku dont need large speakers in the living area. You would probably never listen to music with more than 80db in that room.

 

[Marc v E]

@TubeNoob : depending on your intended use and preference, the cheaper options from Genelec might even be more satisfactory (imo and ime)

I heard the 8351, own the 8030 and heard a home cinema solution with calibrated cheap and well measuring speakers plus diy sub.

To be honest, imho, although the 8351 is amazing and among the all time great for a stereo image at 1 to 3 meters, the home cinema solution floored me. It left me wondering what is most important in a setup.

I do think it's no coincidence Genelec only has the G series for home use. At longer distances and more reflecting walls, the benefit of the coaxial solution might be less than a few well integrated subs and avr. All imo of course, but it might point you in a direction you hadn't thought of.

Btw wall mounting seems the only solution, where I would just enjoy and not be worried if my or others' children will damage speakers. I tried it with floor standers and toddlers, but to be honest, it's just no fun trying to guard them all the time.

 

[Mort]

Genelec 8361A + subs (+ GLM)

• Strong appeal for reliability, repairability, established support
• ugly, but arguably the safest long-term option

Maybe this has been said, but for that smaller space, you should get the 8351b or if wall mounting, the 8341a. Since you'll crossover to the sub anyway, you don't need the powerful bottom end of the 8361a, nor do you need those monsters in that relatively small space.

White Genelecs can look really good, especially wall mounted. And they are built like tanks, with protection over the drivers. They have white stands where the monitor is bolted to the stand.

 

[Marc v E]

You might also get some good advice from Genelec themselves. You can approach them via contact details on their website.

From the reply that I got, I gather they advice using glm or eq in acoustically challenging spaces. In your space I would personally opt for an avr with genelec g4 and subs. But I get the itch for going for the best. I have that too.

 

[Perou]

Please forgive me mate, but you did ask for a sanity check so here it is. You've gone bonkers.

I blame the internet. And certain posters here don't help either.

You're in a very small room in an English terraced house, about to splash a lot of cash in a misguided last gasp of pre-fatherhood life.

You seem perhaps not to have onboarded the hard but wonderful new facts of dad life.

In every possible way you're planning to waste money (Dutch & Dutch, you're kidding, no? Wonderful stuff at crippling prices) on a system that's way, way bigger and more expensive than you need or can use. I mean, you are now considering two subs with Hypex 400 Watt RMS / 1200 Watt peak Class D amps... that go down to 20hz at whatever bananas SPLs people with big houses can actually use? Your neighbours will hate you, yes. Your child will be traumatised also.

And yeah, you are totally overvaluing cardioid. It's hip round here, because this place loves clever new gear. Clever and new don't mean much if they don't fit real life.

Take it easy and go slow. I would seriously suggest you don't spend all your dough all at once, that way lies sadness and disappointment.

Get a budget and stick to it. £5K is plenty. Keep the other £5K in a tax-free wrapper or maybe buy the kid some shoes or biscuits instead.

Get some quality bookshelf-size speakers and wall-mount them, as others have suggested. Get a miniDSP to EQ your speakers for your room, since your partner not unreasonably does not want fugly room treatment, or fine, let the NAD + Dirac do the fiddly stuff.

Get an SVS micro3000 sub if you must, for the (let's be real) brief moments when there a) isn't a tiny child sleeping in the house, and/or stopping you from sleeping because that's your life for the forseeable and b) the neighbours are out. The great advantage of the SVS is you can adjust the level separately and remotely. Whereas you can't on the Buchardts, and you're going to be killing the sub volume a lot. Lastly, get some good headphones.

Happy Christmas! Sorry if I come off all negative here, and best of luck to you.

 

[Mort]

a system that's way, way bigger and more expensive than you need or can use.

This is very judgemental.

And do not get a micro 3000.

 

[Perou]

This is very judgemental.

Why, yes.

Merry Christmas to you, and good wishes to all.

 

[Leeken]

If I wasn’t so invested in what I’ve got now,in your position as I once was the older wiser me would be saying get as good a atmos soundbar as possible with whatever was left after getting the best headphone set up available.
The beauty is in the music,not the delivery system in all honesty.

 

[Kervel]

Agree with Perou here, all suggestions are overkill. Get a Neumann kh150 or genelec 8340 wall mounted with respective DSP. Done.

 

[Mort]

Am I the only person here willing to spend this guy's money?

YOLO my friends, YOLO. Let him have his crisis with some pride, fergawdssake.

 

[JATC]

Am I the only person here willing to spend this guy's money?

YOLO my friends, YOLO. Let him have his crisis with some pride, fergawdssake.

Seems to be a theme of this forum sometimes. Whenever someone inquires about purchasing something, it somehow turns into trying to save the OP money by recommending a cheaper or smaller alternative.

 

[kharan]

View attachment 498889Buying advice wanted — Ascilab C8C + contenders (tiny room, long-term purchase)

I’m planning a once-in-a-lifetime speaker buy (inheritance) and want some sanity-checking before I commit.

Room / constraints

• ~3.2 x 3.4m shared family living room
• Minimal treatment (partner veto), so controlled directivity matters
• Baby on the way → “kid-safe-ish” matters
• Has to be placed approximately as drawn..

Priorities

• Sound quality obviously
• Directivity control / cardioid (to survive the room)
• Long-term reliability /ruggedness / repairability
• Grilles / child safe-ish
• Bass (love EDM)
• Low-level listening (terraced house)
• Price (ideally <£6k, stretch towards £10k if it’s genuinely worth it)
• Looks (wood/MCM styling is preferred, but not over performance)

Speakers I’m weighing up

• Ascilab C8C
  • Front runner
  • Main concern: long-term support/reliability
  • Grilles only for mid-woofers, not the larger subwoofer cones
• Ascilab C8C + BX8C
  • Full range appeal
  • Cost pushes towards ~£10k
  • Same grille limitation; exposed large cones with a baby worries me
• Ascilab S8C (future)
  • Purifi woofers are appealing
  • Unsure the real-world benefit vs C8C; bass extension unit is out of budget
• Genelec 8361A + subs (+ GLM)
  • Strong appeal for reliability, repairability, established support
  • ugly, but arguably the safest long-term option
• Audio First Cadentia 3
  • Passive 3-way standmount (kit or finished)
  • Concern: not cardioid; unsure how forgiving it is in a tiny untreated room
  • Could maybe DIY some grilled

Other gear (not fixed)

• Subwoofers: 2× Buchardt Sub10 (open to better value alternatives)
• Dirac: NAD M66 (DLBC + multiple sub outs) vs cheaper options (nad m10, blue sound node icon) with compromises
• Power amp if needed: likely Nord (model TBD)

Questions

• Given my room, am I over-valuing cardioid, or is it the sensible “no treatment” route?
• would you rule out any immediately?
• What should I buy? Or am I missing a better option?

Any advice appreciated!

Hot take, considering you are willing to accommodate towers, wait for C8T.

Like a cardioid, you'll have limited sideways dispersion which is helpful in a small room. Bass levels will be plenty enough. And being a passive design, reliability is not going to be something to worry about. And it'll be cheaper than anything else in this list except for a Cadentia kit.

 

[RobL]

If I wasn’t so invested in what I’ve got now,in your position as I once was the older wiser me would be saying get as good a atmos soundbar as possible with whatever was left after getting the best headphone set up available.
The beauty is in the music,not the delivery system in all honesty.

Haha, kinda where I’m at. I had a pair of 8361A’s, albeit in a much larger room than the OP.
Great speakers and I never felt the need for subs with them. I sold them last year and now I’m mostly listening to music (ATMOS mixes usually) on a pair of Apple Homepods lol. The Genelec’s are SOTA for a non-cardioid design but the OP is never going to get their best in such a room. I understand wanting to own and experience a truly endgame system (that's why I bought them as well) but now I fully understand “diminishing returns” as it relates to speakers when you get above $2500/pair. Every doubling of the cost get you incremental improvements that will be swamped by a poor room or placement. In the end I got tired of fiddling with them. Oh well, now I know.
Whatever the OP buys, he really needs to consider resale value as the idea of “end game” is a mirage. I was able to sell my Genelecs for almost what I paid after enjoying them for 2 years so I got out relatively well. I’d expect the same if they had been any other well liked pro audio brand like Neumann, ATC etc.
Not so sure about the Ascilabs though.

 

[Uncola]

I think the ascilab C8C are the right choice. Same technical quality as high end genelec but not butt ugly like genelec. The fa253 plate amps should be available for repairs for the long term I wouldn't worry about it too much. Also I think with the mtm to reduce floor and ceiling bounce and cardioid bass they will be good in your minimally treated room. As far as tweeter poking kids are concerned, just teach them. Maybe put some of those wooden toddler fences up until they're old enough to understand

 

[Mort]

Same technical quality as high end genelec

Really? The same? I doubt that.

 

[Purité Audio]

Which aspect do you doubt, Asci have provided the measurements of the C8C, which are exemplary, and they are cardioid too which Gens aren’t amps are Hypex which have a proven pedigree…
Keith