Buying a house and setting up a new stereo

[BigBen421]

Hello all, I'm a 40 year old man from WV with a lot of animals in my house. Until this new house purchase I haven't had a place to set up a hifi and properly sequester it from my animals. I've owned lots of speakers and AVRs over the years and I've already purchased my speakers for this set up, Monitor Audio Gold 300 4th gen. I've had a pair of Bronze bookshelfs for years and really enjoy the sound they emit. I heard the Gold 300s at a store, they were demo units, and they were discontinuing the brand to focus more on Focal and Paradigm. I loved their sound, the piano ebony finish, and had to buy them at the basically half price they were sold to me at.

The main reason I found this site is due to my interest and search for measurements of audio equipment. Specifically amplifier power, distortion, and channel matching. While I do believe measuring speakers has its place, I'm less interested in them. Sometimes I enjoy overly excited sound from a pair of Klipsch bookshelf speakers. Can't listen as long as I do to the Monitors, but I believe these differences and house sounds in speakers serve a purpose. A big old ported 12 inch woofer sometimes conveys an old 90s rap song in a better way than even my beloved 300s can.

I just recently purchased a Monolith 2 x 200 amp from monoprice.

https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/monoprice-monolith-7-channel-amplifier-review/3

The references to power and signal to noise seem to indicate this amplifier is in the upper 3rd of amplifiers tested here if other tests on the internet are to be trusted. Am I reading that right? I got an open box version so the price was even lower than normal. Seeing as I rarely run into the open box on monoprice's site I pulled the trigger.

Sorry for the long introduction but now I'm to the point where I have some serious questions. I need a streamer/pre amp with a phono input and a CD player input. For general listening I use airplay 2 but I do believe I will get amazon music hd or tidal (masters?) when I finally have this system set up. I also like the idea of being able to operate the streamer with my phone or ipads volume control. Is there any reason for disregarding this feature? I originally wanted an NAD C 658 but after the horrible review here I am concerned with that purchase. Should I be? I realize the measurements are bad, but are they at the point where they would be that noticable compared to another option in the price range? Cambridge makes a nice pre amp in the edge series with my intended options, but I found the cambridge interface for streaming sub par when I auditioned it a shop in late 2018 and the price is well out of what I want to spend. Has Cambridge improved it's interface? Does anyone know of any preamps with airplay, streaming, app based volume control, phono input and cd input that would be less than 1000 dollars?

Thank you for your time and any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Ben

 

[Wes]

Tell people if you are a DIYer type - many people use a Raspberry Pi to stream with.

But first... new house means new listening room. I'd start there as it will impact SQ the most, along with the speakers.

 

[BigBen421]

Yes, my room is a large basement bar area of a split level house. I will actually be putting up drywall and putting down a floor so the room should be easy to adjust. I know it won't be perfect, but it will allow my customization. Approximately 350 square feet and will have furniture and wall coverings as well as rugs in the immediate area of the speakers. I hope to decorate with sport prints on acoustic wall panels if possible.

Edit: Sorry, not a DIYer on the electronics side, prefer to buy what fits my needs and it be hassle free.

 

[Apesbrain]

Does anyone know of any preamps with airplay, streaming, app based volume control, phono input and cd input that would be less than 1000 dollars?

Take a look at the Yamaha WXC-50. It's a streaming pre-amp with Airplay and app control. You'd need to add an outboard phono pre-amp, but that's easy enough. CD player would need to connect via optical so that may be a limitation.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/wireless_streaming_amplifiers/wxc-50/features.html

 

[BigBen421]

I’ve been looking at the Uturn orbit custom with a built in phono preamp. Like the price, can get a good cartridge installed, and like the acrylic platter.

edit: also the CD player is last piece I’m going to buy. Probably be the least used item as well, but need it just in case.

 

[HammerSandwich]

What do others think?

Into 8Ω, it's getting awfully close to 100dB (0.001%) below 20W. Into 4Ω, maybe low 90s. SNR at 1W is great. Given the healthy power output, I'd say easily top third in overall performance. But this kind of ranking's obsessive, isn't it? With noise 98dB below 2.8V and distortion well under -80dB until 99+% of speakers are past 100dB SPL, it's more than cromulent enough. You might find a pathological load that creates a slightly audible difference with this amp. If so, look at your speakers.

Given the price & power, the Monolith's drawbacks are basically size/weight & power consumption. Ncore might be a tiny bit cleaner at a similar price, but audibly different? AHB2 is a good bit cleaner (again, how audibly?) at 1/2 the wattage and 3x the price. Anything significantly cheaper has less power or more distortion, right?

re: ground loops, Audioholics tested an early Monolith. New ones include XLR.

TLDR: If you have a non-defective Monolith, it's probably not the weak link in your system.

 

[Wes]

Yes, my room is a large basement bar area of a split level house. I will actually be putting up drywall and putting down a floor so the room should be easy to adjust. I know it won't be perfect, but it will allow my customization. Approximately 350 square feet and will have furniture and wall coverings as well as rugs in the immediate area of the speakers. I hope to decorate with sport prints on acoustic wall panels if possible.

Edit: Sorry, not a DIYer on the electronics side, prefer to buy what fits my needs and it be hassle free.

There are things to do before you close up the stud spaces with dry wall, so post a thread before doing that.

 

[BigBen421]

Do you mind discussing those things to do here? I can start a new thread, but I’ve already been reviewing various forms of drywall. There is an acoustic business in town that sells a variety of gypsum based drywall with various dampening qualities. There is a mold resistant quiet rock that appears to offer sound dampening in itself, what would I want to do behind it? Basement is block walls and concrete floors and sits about 2/3 below ground. Appears to be studs spaced about 16 inches apart but won’t know for sure until I rip down the paneling.

edit: also plan on running a dedicated line off a dedicated breaker to this particular setup so that if I want to Dual monoblock in the future I will have no issues.

 

[bluefuzz]

I originally wanted an NAD C 658 but after the horrible review here I am concerned with that purchase. Should I be?

Since I own a C658 I would say no. My current rig which contains the C658 at its core is by far the best sounding system I've had – and as good as anything I've ever heard. However, I am under no illusion that it is almost certainly due to the Dirac room correction. The NAD sounds no better (or worse) than any other system without it. Other better measuring devices may conceivably sound as good, but they'd better have some decent room correction built in.

 

[BigBen421]

Got the monolith in, really impressed with the “cojones” of the amplifier. I’m running it off the rca preamp out of an onkyo tx-8050. Can’t speak to the signal clarity but the speakers have a lot more depth before they distort. Can’t get them to sound dirty before it’s too loud to listen where as with the 8050 running them at about 2/3 volume there was audible distortion in certain songs, obvious popping in bass lines being the most observable. Would I notice a significant difference between rca and xlr? Just curious if I should buy a preamp with xlr (like the bad c 658) or would something like the previously mentioned Yamaha or a Marantz NR1200 be more than sufficient. Also, if using the Marantz but not using the speaker amps inside, would it offer less interference with its signal processing as opposed to the amps and transformer being “powered up”?

Thanks

Ben

 

[Wes]

I consider XLR a must - even if not needed with your cable length runs

you may well move to a new house where the runs are longer, or EMF noise is higher due to different equipment nearby

but it may be about cost you are willing to pay, etc.

re the Marantz - maybe, but a lot depends on who engineered the unit (as well as who effed up a well engineered design for unit cost savings..)

 

[HammerSandwich]

If you can't hear noise/hum, RCA's probably just fine. OTOH, you could start with RCA->XLR cables. Get them a little longer than you need, so you can replace the RCA end when you upgrade to an XLR source.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Do you mind discussing those things to do here? I can start a new thread, but I’ve already been reviewing various forms of drywall. There is an acoustic business in town that sells a variety of gypsum based drywall with various dampening qualities. There is a mold resistant quiet rock that appears to offer sound dampening in itself, what would I want to do behind it? Basement is block walls and concrete floors and sits about 2/3 below ground. Appears to be studs spaced about 16 inches apart but won’t know for sure until I rip down the paneling.

edit: also plan on running a dedicated line off a dedicated breaker to this particular setup so that if I want to Dual monoblock in the future I will have no issues.

Quiet Rock is great in keeping sound from escaping your room, but is not an acoustical treatment. I highly recommend Owens Corning Acoustic Blanket. It doesn’t help with absorption of low frequencies but it works great for mid to high frequencies and looks good and goes on drywall easily. I covered the bottom 3’ of my theatre with this stuff then put a little trim on top to make it look professionally installed.

 

[BigBen421]

Copy, I guess I misunderstood the value of quiet rock. I will look into the material you suggested. Bound to be an acoustic like drywall that will help with reflections as well.

 

[Wes]

There are products that go in between the studs to dampen the drywall itself - not sure of the name, could be QR

Similarly there a special green glue and small pads used in between the drywall and the studs; also special types of non-resonant drywall.

All of the above can reduce effects caused by movement of the drywall from acoustic pressure - i.e. it can act like a drumhead.

A review of info on how to build a recording studio (online or books) will be useful before starting construction.

 

[NTK]

Dr. Toole has a guide on home theater sound isolation that has a lot of good information.
https://routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/9781138921368/sound-isolation.php

 

[SimpleTheater]

Copy, I guess I misunderstood the value of quiet rock. I will look into the material you suggested. Bound to be an acoustic like drywall that will help with reflections as well.

Probably not. Dry wall is a hard reflective surface, you need something on the surface that has absorption qualities so the sound doesn’t bounce around the room. Maybe if someone made a drywall with rubber on one side it might do something, but you’re going to have to treat the drywall one way or the other. Some people buy 703 or other fiberglass products and wrap them in speaker grill cloth then place them around the room.
Heavy carpeting helps as do large couches, heavy drapes help absorb sound. Bookshelves can help diffuse sound as well.

 

[Wes]

HF reflection off the drywall is different from the drywall functioning like a drum head.

For the former you just want to use absorbers or diffusers (if it's a problem).

And in terms of importance I'd bet room size will be #1 for a basement setup.

 

[Webninja]

I went down the rabbit hole of sound insulation/optimization when I was doing a remodel. At the end I realized that you need to decouple the room from the house, so to speak. Although certain types of insulation and drywall layers with green glue (forgot the name) between, all help, it didn’t create a fully isolated room that has significant db decrease unless you did the decoupling.

If the challenge suits you, you’ll need to have sound deadening clips from the drywall to the 2x4. Then make a drywall sandwich with the green goo. You can go crazy and do the ceiling and floor too.

Guess that green stuff is just called green glue.
https://www.greengluecompany.com/