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Burn-in testing - real or imaginary?

Wes

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'brain-in' - that's good!

I'll add tubes as a part that has sound changes over time.
 

RayDunzl

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"Burn-in testing - real or imaginary?"

If burn-in is a complex topic, which it seems to be from the comments...

Then it should comprise a real and imaginary part.

Which it does, by reports above.
 

Speedskater

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TS parameters on speakers driver change due to break in of the surround. Easily measured, doesn't happen twice.
Drivers and complete loudspeakers can also have warm-up changes. Do a long set of tests and then measurements, than let the speaker rest for a day and the first measurements may be different.
 

Pdxwayne

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Drivers and complete loudspeakers can also have warm-up changes. Do a long set of tests and then measurements, than let the speaker rest for a day and the first measurements may be different.
So, instead of "burn in" or "break in", we call this "warm in"? : )
 

Wes

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Seen recently in a Slubjectivista forum:

"My AfterDark clocks have continued to improve up to around 30 days after first switch-on. I would say they have reached full performance now, and very good indeed is that performance."
 

escksu

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It largely depends on type of electronics. Certain ones have break-in period, others don't. One of component that needs break-in will be capacitors., esp. electrolytic capacitors. When you run your capacitor, chemical reaction occurs between the electrolyte and the foil (usually aluminum). A thin layer of oxide will also form on the foil. Takes time to happen.

Wires do undergo very minor changes, due to 2 reasons. Firstly, its the insulation. Metal do react with the insulation, eg. PVC, copper will react with the chloride in PVC to form copper chloride. Whether it affects sound or not, I don't know, but it does seems to affect inductance and high frequencies. Another is impurities in copper. There is no such thing as 100% pure copper (unless you only use a handful of atoms). So, there are impurities in the copper. It does react to form amalgam. Passing electricity through cable will accelerate this. Whether it affects sound or not, I don't know.
 

Beave

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It largely depends on type of electronics. Certain ones have break-in period, others don't. One of component that needs break-in will be capacitors., esp. electrolytic capacitors. When you run your capacitor, chemical reaction occurs between the electrolyte and the foil (usually aluminum). A thin layer of oxide will also form on the foil. Takes time to happen.

How much time does it take, and how much change in the capacitor occurs?
 

Pennyless Audiophile

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When I first turned on my Tannoy Gold 7, I heard for about 10 or 15 seconds a "grschtreschgrscshthrch" sound that completely disappeared after those few seconds and never came back. That was probably all the burn in they needed, but I confess, I was alarmed for a few seconds.
 

escksu

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Nothing to do with audio, but burn-in is done for more than just audio. ITs also done for overclocking of processors. ITs very common for overclockers to "break-in" their processors in order to achieve slightly higher overclocking results.

Break-in is also down for mechanical parts, common for things like engines, transmission etc.... Formula 1 engines and transmission goes through extremely comprehension break-in before its being used in races.
 

Frgirard

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Nothing to do with audio, but burn-in is done for more than just audio. ITs also done for overclocking of processors. ITs very common for overclockers to "break-in" their processors in order to achieve slightly higher overclocking results.

Break-in is also down for mechanical parts, common for things like engines, transmission etc.... Formula 1 engines and transmission goes through extremely comprehension break-in before its being used in races.

I must:eek:burn in my new baby.
 

vibess

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ITs also done for overclocking of processors. ITs very common for overclockers to "break-in" their processors in order to achieve slightly higher overclocking results..
Never in 25 years have I heard this to be necessary. Break-in or burn-in to test for faulty parts or components perhaps, but not to increase performance.
 

BluesDaddy

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https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/81355-capacitor-burn-break.html

I can't verify his results as I do not have an oscilloscope. But capacitors manufacturers themselves say a burn-in period is required. Some people might have heard of brands like rubycon, nichicon and Elna.
Of course some manufacturers will say that as it is de rigueur in audiophool circles to discuss "burn in". It is a marketing ploy like pricing equipment higher then might otherwise be justified because "cost equals quality". IF "burn in" for capacitors is actually doing something, then the specs are changing and would be completely measurable. But that would also risk putting the cap outside the required specifications for what it is being used. If you can't depend on a capacitor in a crossover measuring consistently over a reasonable (years) period of time, then the crossover will no longer meet the designer's intent and the speaker will not perform as designed. IF they're making components that actually do change with "burn in", then I wouldn't want them in anything I buy.
 

magicscreen

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Yes, usually you have to burn-in audio devices.
Exception: the well measured devices like Jds Atom, they have so bad sound quality as no burn-in helps.
 

escksu

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Of course some manufacturers will say that as it is de rigueur in audiophool circles to discuss "burn in". It is a marketing ploy like pricing equipment higher then might otherwise be justified because "cost equals quality". IF "burn in" for capacitors is actually doing something, then the specs are changing and would be completely measurable. But that would also risk putting the cap outside the required specifications for what it is being used. If you can't depend on a capacitor in a crossover measuring consistently over a reasonable (years) period of time, then the crossover will no longer meet the designer's intent and the speaker will not perform as designed. IF they're making components that actually do change with "burn in", then I wouldn't want them in anything I buy.

I don't think we can have any meaningful discussions on this. I don't think you have an understand of chemical changes of an electrolytic capacitor during this "burn-in", neither do you seems to understand what is endurance and dissipation factor. I would say its better if you go find out more about all these information first, else its just a waste of each other's time. For now, I will just add you to my ignore list.
 

Spkrdctr

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This girl accomplished a total burn for her parents. She did it after hearing them talk about having to burn in all the audio equipment they owned. Looks like she got it all in her first try.
1622467577058.png
 

Spkrdctr

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I don't think we can have any meaningful discussions on this. I don't think you have an understand of chemical changes of an electrolytic capacitor during this "burn-in", neither do you seems to understand what is endurance and dissipation factor. I would say its better if you go find out more about all these information first, else its just a waste of each other's time. For now, I will just add you to my ignore list.

I would say that yes it is measurable but it is not audible. If it is not audible such as a mouse passing gas in the next room, it doesn't matter. There are thousands of posts on ASR about measurement differences but they are not audible. If it is not audible, we would need another well thought out idea on why it matters. I like keeping and eye on measurements on ASR that matter to a real, in the home listener.
 

solderdude

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When large capacitors have been voltage less for over a year it is recommended to re-form them. This can take a few minutes and when done properly (with a low current) up to an hour.
This is not burn-in this is re-forming.

It is not needed when used regularly.
 

Frgirard

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I need three hours to burn in my ears.
Help me
I would like one hour.
Help help he....
 
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