Building big speakers – Questions and advice needed

[whaleboard]

Hey everyone,

I'm in the process of upgrading my listening equipment, and after much internal debates, I'd like to start by building myself a set of DIY speakers. I have allocated around 1500€ (about 1700$) for that purpose.

They'll be used in a room that's quite small, my bedroom which doubles down as my living space. I've made a detailed plan so it's easier to grasp. See below.
The two red rectangles are where the speakers would be placed.

I’ve always loved the design of those vintage JBL monitors, especially the 4350, huge five-ways speakers. Of course, my room being quite small – about 15 square meters – it won’t be able to accomodate these (which I cannot afford anyway). But still, I’d like to get very big cabinets, in the vein of Klipsh Cornwalls.

I listen to a lot of electronic music, with an emphasis on experimental sound design. That means bass-heavy and very detailed sound. I also have a hefty jazz collection. Ideally, my speakers would perform extremely well at low volume and be very efficient. They would be great bass performers without the need for a sub. I’d say they’ll be played at low to medium-low volume most of the time.

I've been eyeing Troels Gravesen designs, namely his new Loudspeaker-III, but I'm afraid these are above budget for me. He advised for the Loudspeaker-III becaus of the integrated Hypex amp, to tune the bass in order to compensate room gain. But still, we're at aroung 2200€ in the end, excluding wood, woodworking and finishes.

But that's pretty much the kind of speakers I'd like to build: highly efficient, big cabinet to ensure great bass response.

I don't intend on building new speakers every few days. I'm going the DIY route to get the most bang for my buck, and get a reference system for a lot less than if I were to go the brand-name route.

Perhaps some of you can point me to another solution?

PS: I will buy or make an amplifier tailored to the speakers I end up building.

 

[Kustomize]

Your music preference and bass requirements along with ability to play loud, Tarkus by Paul Carmody!

 

[whaleboard]

Your music preference and bass requirements along with ability to play loud, Tarkus by Paul Carmody!

I've read that these are geared toward rock music, and to be frank, I'd like to invest a little more and build something that'll last me longer. Aiming at a reference speaker basically, I'm ready to shell out up to 2000euros if it's really worth it. I'll just need to be patient!

 

[Few]

Are you looking to copy a design or design something yourself? Might you use digital crossovers, or do you want to go passive? Have you listened to any line array speakers? You could achieve your SPL goals with a fairly small footprint.

The bass response in your room will be dominated by the way your speakers excite room modes, rather than their enclosure size. You might consider a few subwoofers carefully distributed around the room to minimize lumpy bass. With multiple subwoofers they need not be huge. I‘m guessing that what I’m describing doesn’t match what you were visualizing, but you might read up on the way bass in small spaces is more room dependent than speaker dependent; you really have to think of the speakers and room as a single system below 100-200 Hz. Plus it looks like your main speakers will be in the room corners, so that needs to be considered in the design.

Few

 

[Killingbeans]

But that's pretty much the kind of speakers I'd like to build: highly efficient, big cabinet to ensure great bass response.

I was planning to build these at one point. Even bought the specific issue of Hobby HiFi with the building plans in it (I'll send it to you for free if you want it... it's in German though), but never got any further: https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/statement_en.htm

 

[Wombat]

DIY Klipsch K-402 horn:

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/232459-klipsch-k402-replica-build/


Mods to convert it into a Danley-alike Unity horn:

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/161404-a-k-402-based-full-range-multiple-entry-horn/


Add LF boxes to suit using large but sensitive drivers. Lots of box design Apps on the internet.


Something like this makes crossover easier: https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B6H Easy to buy used on Ebay.


You should be able to do it near budget. Members, here, could give guidance on budget driver alternatives if required.

If I wasn't done building I would build them myself.


P.S. I have BIG Altecs.

 

[Wombat]

PPS.

No excuses.

With my build, cuts ,sanding and paint were done outdoors and assembly in the house.

I will refer WAF, etc., excuses to Sal for comment.

 

[Kustomize]

Take a look at the corner horn options. Offered as completed speakers and as kits. Should work well close to corners/boundaries.

https://www.pispeakers.com/Prices.html

 

[whaleboard]

Are you looking to copy a design or design something yourself? Might you use digital crossovers, or do you want to go passive? Have you listened to any line array speakers? You could achieve your SPL goals with a fairly small footprint.

The bass response in your room will be dominated by the way your speakers excite room modes, rather than their enclosure size. You might consider a few subwoofers carefully distributed around the room to minimize lumpy bass. With multiple subwoofers they need not be huge. I‘m guessing that what I’m describing doesn’t match what you were visualizing, but you might read up on the way bass in small spaces is more room dependent than speaker dependent; you really have to think of the speakers and room as a single system below 100-200 Hz. Plus it looks like your main speakers will be in the room corners, so that needs to be considered in the design.

Few

I don't really mind copying a design. As I said, I'm not looking at building speakers routinely, I would just like to DIY a pair of the best of what 1500$ – 2000$ can get me, with the priority being that they perform very well at low volume. Aesthetics are somewhat important too.

Well, I'd prefer passive, I don't feel like ending up having to buy 6 amps to power my speakers. A mix of passive/acttive could also work, as I've seen on some design having the subwoofer driven by a Hypex amp for instance.

I've never listened to a line array speaker! Although, footprint is not an issue as I've stated, I like a big mean looking speaker.
I'd like to keep things to just two speakers with no extra subs. I'd rather have an active subwoofer cabinet included in my design that I can tweak to reduce room gain rather than 3 subwoofer sprinkled around, to keep things clean.

Indeed, corners need to be considered. Troels Gravesen suggested an active subwoofer (like in his Loudspeaker-III) for easy tweaking. I'd love that, but his designs have very complex cabinets, and are overall, very expensive.

PPS.

No excuses.

With my build, cuts ,sanding and paint were done outdoors and assembly in the house.

I will refer WAF, etc., excuses to Sal for comment.

They look amazing!

 

[puppet]

Have a look at Zilch's Econowave design(s).
There's PiSpeakers, too.

 

[hex168]

This might fit well in your space:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/242171-towers-25-driver-range-line-array.html

 

[Rick Sykora]

If you can find them in stock, these would seem to match your tastes...

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speaker-kits/home-theater-series/impressives.html

 

[kipman725]

I would build separate subs and mains even if the mains just end up stacked on the subs. here is a picture of one side of my setup which is in a similar sized room. The tops are 3 way with a unity horn covering down to 500Hz and the subs come in at 100Hz:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/335062-bm-d446-ph-4220-a.html
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/345807-isobaric-sub-based-pyle-plpw15d.html
I also like electronic music and an important aspect for me is to have good coverage at over as much as the room as possible. The unity horns help with this because they allow driver spacing under 1/4 wavelength so the top acts a point source and has no off axis dips like you get with conventional speakers that have over 1/4 wavelength spacing. To this end I would recommend building unity horns (and full range ones if your carpentry is up to it). My horns are also quite wide dispersion horizontally (90x40 pattern). The way I have them angled down allows for both sitting on a sofa and standing up, getting good sound in both positions

The SynTripP is a well regarded 2 way unity horn design:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/264485-syntripp-2-2-virtual-single-source-horn.html

In terms of subs I would save money here and build a pair of 1*18" or 2*18" reflex subs using something like:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DCS450-4-18-Classic-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-295-475?quantity=1
they can also double as stands for the top speakers.

For amplification this setup would need 6 channels of amplifier and DSP. At home I use a conventional outboard DSP and amp rack which uses quite a lot of space and it can be hard to find rack amps which don't have noisy fans. This kind of thing is available in Europe to combine the two functions:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t.amp_quadro_500_dsp.htm?sid=4c0978d078cbed022d177e8899d579d8

 

[Severian]

As a fellow electronic music head, I also have to echo the recommendation that you build separate subs. You will have much more flexibility in your choice of mains if you offload the low end.

 

[David James]

For a small room you may find large woofers dont really work out. Bass gets complicated in room and a square small room is probably going to be problematic.
Given you are looking for reference quality, I'd consider Jeff Bagby's Kairos, which i think you should build as a two way, and if you are not satified with the bass, then build the add on woofer section.

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/kairos-speaker-kit/

These drivers are some of the best available, and the designer is renowned. The description of the woofer section is written in a way that you can use it with some flexibility.

While you are at meniscus audio, you should look at other kits. Keep in mind that many speakers that are designed to reproduce bass, such as the tarkus, will have a slight rise in the bass which may not be necessary in a small room.

Absolutely, you should build an existing design. Dont try and do your own without measuring gear and knowledge or you'll blow your money and be dissatisfied. Speaker design is extremely complex.

 

[David James]

Here is an MTM using the same drivers:

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/adelphos-mtm-speaker-kit/

I think that the woofer module works with these as well although I wouldn't be surprised if you found two 6" drivers adequate.

 

[kipman725]

Here is an MTM using the same drivers:

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/adelphos-mtm-speaker-kit/

I think that the woofer module works with these as well although I wouldn't be surprised if you found two 6" drivers adequate.

Could you justify why large woofers won't work in a small room ? I don't think this is true at all, after all they still work inna car (very small room).

 

[q3cpma]

Is this me, or are almost all of these without measurements? Strange, since OP is searching for a "reference" system.

 

[peanuts]

3 way cornscala`s are somewhat cheap and easy to build. from $1217 for the parts.
https://critesspeakers.com/crites-speakers.html
impossible to find measurements though.

 

[Frank Dernie]

There are a (very) few speakers designed to go in corners, corner horns are one obvious one but there are some closed box speakers with lots of bass roll off designed to match the augmentation of having 3 flat surfaces adjacent (which is massive).
Normal speakers in corners always sound woolly and overblown in the bass if put in corners, not only because of this but also it is the ideal place to most strongly excite the 3 room modes and minimally excite their harmonics, so boomy too.

Could you justify why large woofers won't work in a small room ? I don't think this is true at all, after all they still work inna car (very small room).

It is more because in a small room there is nowhere acoustically favourable to put the speakers for access reasons so a smaller speaker with more rolled off bass always works better because they end up against a wall (bad) or in a corner (worst possible place for a full range source).