Building a perfect headphone system.

[newaudioguy77]

Hello fellow ASR members,

I'm looking for advice with respect to building a headphone system. Although my Activo DAP sounds good, I want to build a "reference" headphone system so I can easily quantify (at least subjectively) different headphones as I buy more in the future, based on perceived accuracy. If the source components don't have colorations, I should be able to easily distinguish the sound signature of each new headphone.

Headphone amplifier + DAC = amazing objective performance?

SINGXER SA1 Headphone Amplifier & Preamplifier

Features: 1.Ultra-low distortion: THD+N -120db @1khz A weighting 20-22khz, When outputting 50mv at low gain, THD+N still has -96db @1khz A weighting 20-22khz. 2.Ultra-low noise: At low gain, the bottom noise is 300nv RMS A weighted 20-22khz,the direct test value of AP2522 is 0.66uv, At maximum...

shenzhenaudio.com

SINGXER SDA6 AK4499 Digital to Analog Convertor (DAC)

Because the high-end version requires manual adjustment and production, it takes more time to ship. The high-end version adopts a non-loop negative feedback full DC full-balanced discrete class-A output circuit; the crystal oscillator of the USB part uses a CCHD-957 femtosecond clock; the analog...

shenzhenaudio.com

Has anyone used either of these two, or together in a combo? I would love to know. GIven the provided measurements, I'm going to expect totally flawless performance that is centered around audibly transparent passages in music and hearing music just as it was recorded. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if you believe a better headphone system exists. My goal is total sonic accuracy with no compromises.

 

[solderdude]

The best/perfect headphone system does not exist.
There are plenty of systems that are good enough for each and every one and each and every use-case but they are NOT going to be the same systems.
There is no 'best amp', no 'best DAC' either I am afraid.
Some amps are more suited to drive certain headphones though.

The Singxers are fine with most headphones, so can others be. Have no idea of longevity though.

 

[newaudioguy77]

The best/perfect headphone system does not exist.
There are plenty of systems that are good enough for each and every one and each and every use-case but they are NOT going to be the same systems.
There is no 'best amp', no 'best DAC' either I am afraid.
Some amps are more suited to drive certain headphones though.

The Singxers are fine with most headphones, so can others be. Have no idea of longevity though.

This headphone amplifier has amazing measurements. Same with the DAC.

Do you own this headphone amplifier? If so, what goes best with it?

I think if measurements tell us a DAC is audibly transparent, they should sound the same? I mean we're way above the threshold of hearing with these spectacular measurements from Singxer.

I really like the look of the DAC and headphone amplifier together. After watching some reviews on YouTube, some describe it as "warm" but how can that be? It has a ruler flat frequency response. I think the reviewers are simply experiencing the sound of their headphones, not the amp.

When you say a perfect headphone system does not exist, of course subjectively it doesn't. But objectively, it should. My goal is just to be immersed in completely honest and accurate sound.

 

[solderdude]

This headphone amplifier has amazing measurements. Same with the DAC.

The standard measurements are good, far, far beyond any audibility thresholds. So are many, many other devices.

Do you own this headphone amplifier?

No.

I think if measurements tell us a DAC is audibly transparent, they should sound the same? I mean we're way above the threshold of hearing with these spectacular measurements from Singxer.

When correct filters are used, yes. Many devices are as well so when you state 'audibly transparent' = perfect than many, many devices are indeed perfect when it comes to measured performance.

I really like the look of the DAC and headphone amplifier together.

Then there really is no reason not to buy it, providing you are willing/able to spend the money on it.

After watching some reviews on YouTube, some describe it as "warm" but how can that be? It has a ruler flat frequency response.

People like the descriptor 'warm' so this will boost sales. There is no 'warmth' in reality though. YT reviewers are just that... trying to make fame/money on 'reviewing' stuff they get to keep for free. This almost instantly guarantees a positive review. They will throw in words that trigger sales. I ignore those internet marvels.

When you say a perfect headphone system does not exist, of course subjectively it doesn't. But objectively, it should.

Objectively a specific DAC may have the highest value of one, or even more, specific measurement results but may be poorer at another metric.
That what is TOTL now may be surpassed in one or more metrics tomorrow. As long as measurements and performance still improves 'perfect' has not been reached.
I expect newer test equipment to have to hit the market as well as limits of test equipment can almost be reached by cheap gear already.

My goal is just to be immersed in completely honest and accurate sound.

Get a good headphone and use EQ. Maybe get 1 more for portable usage.
Once you found your headphone with perfect fit, comfort and sound buy an amplifier that can drive it without breaking into a sweat and find a DAC that has the features you want and at least 'good' measurements.

The secret sauce is not a specific brand or highest SINAD numbers.

 

[newaudioguy77]

The standard measurements are good, far, far beyond any audibility thresholds. So are many, many other devices.


No.



When correct filters are used, yes. Many devices are as well so when you state 'audibly transparent' = perfect than many, many devices are indeed perfect when it comes to measured performance.



Then there really is no reason not to buy it, providing you are willing/able to spend the money on it.


People like the descriptor 'warm' so this will boost sales. There is no 'warmth' in reality though. YT reviewers are just that... trying to make fame/money on 'reviewing' stuff they get to keep for free. This almost instantly guarantees a positive review. They will throw in words that trigger sales. I ignore those internet marvels.





Objectively a specific DAC may have the highest value of one, or even more, specific measurement results but may be poorer at another metric.
That what is TOTL now may be surpassed in one or more metrics tomorrow. As long as measurements and performance still improves 'perfect' has not been reached.
I expect newer test equipment to have to hit the market as well as limits of test equipment can almost be reached by cheap gear already.


Get a good headphone and use EQ. Maybe get 1 more for portable usage.
Once you found your headphone with perfect fit, comfort and sound buy an amplifier that can drive it without breaking into a sweat and find a DAC that has the features you want and at least 'good' measurements.

The secret sauce is not a specific brand or highest SINAD numbers.

When you say the secret sauce is not a specific brand or SINAD numbers, that is worrying.

Because if one brand is consistently performing better for the money, then shouldn't it be recommended often?

And if the highest SINAD numbers don't guarantee anything as you assert, then what is the point of the master table that includes DACs and headphone amplifiers in the blue vs red etc. (Highest and lowest SINAD ratings)

I mean we're in 2022. We should have a technically perfect headphone system by now. If measurements don't tell us which unit is, what does?

Are you suggesting that measurements don't matter 100% ? What else could be responsible for how a piece of audio gear sounds? Don't get me started are on the subjective reviewers. You know, the same guys who review cables and stuff with no measurements to back up their subjective claims.

 

[solderdude]

When you say the secret sauce is not a specific brand or SINAD numbers, that is worrying.

Why ?
SINAD is just a number that is easily ranked but ONLY says something about distortion products at 1kHz at a certain level and noise distance to that level in a specific load condition. It says nothing about sound quality, longevity, channel imbalance, frequency response, immunity to ground loops, load dependency, IM distortion etc.
It is just a generated number that is easily ranked.

The theory behind the ranking is that the higher the number the less noise and distortion is which is one indicator of signal fidelity.
Amir just ranks it. If Amir really believed it is the only important metric he would not post an article nor other measurement results but only post ranking charts. Amir does no such thing. He also publishes other measurements and even then only the ones he deems to be of importance so not all measurements that can be made and reported.

Because if one brand is consistently performing better for the money, then shouldn't it be recommended often?

That would depend on what it performs better at, under which circumstances and what load. Then there is longevity and applicability.

And if the highest SINAD numbers don't guarantee anything as you assert, then what is the point of the master table that includes DACs and headphone amplifiers in the blue vs red etc. (Highest and lowest SINAD ratings)

This has been discussed in numerous threads already.

I mean we're in 2022. We should have a technically perfect headphone system by now.

Alas, no and don't see a future where a headphone ever becomes perfect either. There already were great sounding systems decades ago right up to this day and there will also be great ones in the future... most likely.

If measurements don't tell us which unit is, what does?

Measurements can tell us how devices perform technically (signal fidelity). For speakers and above all headphones they are indicative at best.

Are you suggesting that measurements don't matter 100% ?

Well of course measurements matter. When you are tanking gas you really want the indicated liter to be accurate. When you buy 10 ounces of gold you want the ounces to be correct. etc. When you need something to be one meter in length and it turns out to be 98cm and come up 2 centimeter short you can see the importance of measurements.

When one device has a SINAD of 121 and another one is just 80 the one with SINAD 80 might be more noisy, have more distortion at 1kHz into a certain load at a certain level but it won't ever guarantee you the SINAD 80 device might not be and even sound much better.

What else could be responsible for how a piece of audio gear sounds?

The transducer and its coupling to the surroundings and if it is driven properly at all required levels, has noise (and preferably distortion) below audible levels and good enough frequency response without too much deviations.

 

[newaudioguy77]

Thank you for clarifying.

"When one device has a SINAD of 121 and another one is just 80 the one with SINAD 80 might be more noisy, have more distortion at 1kHz into a certain load at a certain level but it won't ever guarantee you the SINAD 80 device might not be and even sound much better."

- I think Amir said something about this. But actually the opposite. Sounding better could mean having pleasing harmonic distortions or distortion in general that we find adds another layer of sound.

I guess I'll never find the answer to this question. If this super rig is not perfect from the perspective of "true reference sound" then I don't know what is.
Could someone recommend the most true to life headphone system they have heard; regardless of price? Of course, it also needs to measure well.

Headphone amplifier + DAC

I'll save up my pennies for it!