Building a Hifi Stack

[Crazy_Nate]

Hey guys - thought I'd introduce myself and solicit feedback. I'm Nate. I'm an mechanical engineer. I have always been interested in audio, but over the last couple of years I've put some money aside to build out a nice system.

I have some fairly entry level headphones (K7XX and 6XX) with a Jotunheim that I've had for a couple of years. I also have a pair of KEF LS50 that's currently hooked up to a cheap receiver I have from my college days. I'll be putting this new system into a rack either rackmounted directly or on shelves and us it to power the LS50 (which I may upgrade down the road). Already have a rack and a surge protector (Zero Surge 10R-1U-15W-I). My primary source will be optical or coax out of a dedicated computer, but I might buy a nice bluray player down the road (currently using a PS3). I listen to rock and a lot of metal, so having really good bass / mid-range dynamics is fairly important to me. Also slightly important is not being fatiguing as I'd like to be able to have extended listening sessions. I'll add some nice headphones down the road so a really nice headphone amp is a major plus.

I've been looking at ~$8k-10k for a DAC / preamp / amp combo and right now I have this configuration in mind:

Benchmark DAC3B ($1700) / HPA4 ($3300 / rack mountable + remote) / AHB2 ($3100 / rack mountable).

I'd like to see if there are any other relevant options in this ballpark of price range. If I have to squeeze some more funds into my budget, I just wait longer. I'm mostly thinking that my first big leap into Hifi will be with as much accuracy that I can get for my money (any configuration that I can get solid measurements on, I can also have a better idea of what I'm paying for). I may find out that I don't like my speakers in the process and go look at other options that are fairly neutral and natural sounding. I'd prefer to have extra balanced outputs on the preamp so that I can run a subwoofer like a Rythmik down the road, which can take either a balanced L/R pair or balanced summed mono (such as with the HPA4).

One other configuration that I've eyeballed is a Bryston stack - which is slightly over what I'd like to pay retailing at ~$14200 (~$12500 with buying some newish b-stock):
Bryston BDA-3.14 ($4200) / BP17-3 ($4500 or ~$3800 b-stock) / 3B Cubed Pro ($5500 or ~$4500 b-stock). Since I'd add a balanced headphone amp down the road, I'd have to figure out how to do that and integrate a subwoofer (might be as simple as a balanced / XLR splitter coming off of the DAC. I've seen measurements on the BDA-3 (stereophile) and it looks very good. Bryston also has a 20 year warranty which is quite impressive. However, for the same price I could run 2 AHB2 dual-mono and buy a nice subwoofer or pair of headphones (maybe both).

So, any other companies that I should be looking at in this price range? Specifically those that place an emphasis on measuring well and sounding good? Really wish Benchmark would release a DAC (4B??) around the ESS 9038PRO

 

[SMc]

If you go Bryston, do you need the preamp?

 

[Sal1950]

You can't do better than the Benchmark pieces you mentioned, SOTA.
Now you mention being a bit of a bass head, you need a subwoofer more than anything at this point, 2 would be even better. Besides adding the bass you don't have, proper bass management will release the LS50's from trying to play the bass that they're not capable of giving them better dynamic range and sound quality over all.
So only get one AHB-2 for now and use that remaining $3k for subwoofers. A much better allocation of funds for the best SQ.

 

[Crazy_Nate]

If you go Bryston, do you need the preamp?

So, taking a closer look at the Bryston gear, it looks like the BDA 3.14 has internal (digital) volume control, and there's an option to get an internal DAC for the BP17-3 preamp (but I can't find any information about what it is). Definitely could get some price saving this way (similar to using a DAC3 HGC to drive an AHB-2 directly). I'm not sure what compromises are involved with either of those configurations over having separates.

You can't do better than the Benchmark pieces you mentioned, SOTA.
Now you mention being a bit of a bass head, you need a subwoofer more than anything at this point, 2 would be even better. Besides adding the bass you don't have, proper bass management will release the LS50's from trying to play the bass that they're not capable of giving them better dynamic range and sound quality over all.
So only get one AHB-2 for now and use that remaining $3k for subwoofers. A much better allocation of funds for the best SQ.

For proper bass management are you suggesting an external crossover?

I'm probably going to start out with a single Rythmik F15HP sub for some serious value ($1300 each). Very flat response down to ~14 Hz.

 

[Crazy_Nate]

I guess I could also point out that I have a dedicated 15A circuit for this system. Sub(s) will probably be on a different circuit.

 

[Sal1950]

For proper bass management are you suggesting an external crossover?
I'm probably going to start out with a single Rythmik F15HP sub for some serious value ($1300 each). Very flat response down to ~14 Hz.

OK, I checked and was surprised that the HPA didn't have any built-in bass management. We're only concerned here with low cut filter, the Rythmik would handle the rest. You could go with a miniDSP between the DAC and HPA but that would kill the bass for headphone listening. This gonna take some thinkin, many ways to do it but which is the best?

 

[Willem]

An RME ADI-2 DAC can serve as a perfect DAC+preamplifier+headphone amp. Add a class D power amplifier based on Hypex Ncore modules and you will have just about the best quality you can get for rather less money. This will leave a large budget for speakers and or subwoofers. For best bass, get at least two subwoofers, plus some dsp room eq. How big is the room?

 

[Purité Audio]

Look at some contemporary active speaker designs.
Keith

 

[Crazy_Nate]

An RME ADI-2 DAC can serve as a perfect DAC+preamplifier+headphone amp. Add a class D power amplifier based on Hypex Ncore modules and you will have just about the best quality you can get for rather less money. This will leave a large budget for speakers and or subwoofers. For best bass, get at least two subwoofers, plus some dsp room eq. How big is the room?

Room is 17'x19' with a 10' ceiling height (living room). It opens into our dining room and kitchen in one corner.

Not against using a class-D amp. Just need to do some research. AHB-2 seems very, very good, for what it is.

 

[Sal1950]

Let me throw out another idea, this is one I'd be seriously looking at if I was looking to do a 2 channel rig.
For the preamp look at the Anthem STR. It would handle all the functions your interested in and more.
https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/series=str-series/model=str-pre-amplifier/page=overview
Complete with DAC, bass management system is built-in, plus the ARC room correction software that many have praised.
Just add the power amp and subwoofers, you'd be all set to put together an amazing rig.
I've heard the Anthem system paired with the top of the line Paradigm speakers at last years Tampa show and gave it my best of show sound award.
The Benchmark amp is the SOTA measuring product of the decade, and probably will remain so for a long time.
But TBH, there are probably 50+ power amps on the market that would be indistinguishable from the ABH2 in a blind listening test.
The audio cream is going to come from what you do in the front end.

 

[Crazy_Nate]

So... I spent a while reading. I think having some type of room EQ is going to be mandatory to properly manage bass, especially in a 2.2 system. I looked at the miniDSP SHD ($1199) and I could make that work as a preamp / streamer / room EQ, but I'd have a hard time figuring out how to integrate a headphone amp. Anthem is probably the same since it doesn't have a built in headphone amp... Both systems are 4 XLR outputs (left, right, sub 1, sub 2). Anthem has 2 optical, 2 coax, 1 AES, 1 USB. The SHD has 1 optical, 1 coax, 1 AES, and 1 USB. It also looks like both systems measure fairly well. Anthem here: https://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews/anthem-str-preamp-power-amplifier/p2 and here's the miniDSP SHD: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nts-of-minidsp-shd-dac-dsp-and-streamer.4286/

As much as it pains me to say I'm leading toward not doing headphones in this system. I'll probably do this as a separate system in a quieter room. Right now I think I'll go with the Anthem STR preamp ($4k) and a single Benchmark AHB2 ($3k), which leaves enough budget to go with dual subs from Rythmik (F12SE or F15HP). The Anthem STR amp ($6k) is probably more power than I'd need (400 W @ 8 ohm). If I really feel like I need more power down the road I can get a second AHB2 (380 W @ 8 ohm when bridged mono).

What's the consensus on how to run the subs in a 2.2 system? Do you do separate left / right channels, or just run both subs with the summed mono and use them to better optimize the evenness of the bass in the room?

 

[Willem]

The latter.