Budget tall mid-bass to sub speaker, to act as stand for LS50s

[Sokel]

Genelec W371A Subwoofer Woofer, 23 Hz - 500 Hz ))

I corrected your post a little so people don't confused and think it's easy.

And that's because W371A is made for purpose, they don't just throw a woofer under any speaker.
Building/adding a woofer at an existing 2-way is just like building a whole new speaker from scratch, one must have access to anechoic measurements, way to do spins, etc, the works.

Otherwise it would be a flood in the market for such product, lots of people already try to turn their 2-ways to 3-ways, it's just really difficult to do right.
Genelec does it but for their own. And no wonder is no cheap.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Genelec W371A Subwoofer, 23 Hz - 500 Hz ))

That thing is so awesome. Looks like it uses a sub driver for the low stuff and a lighter "pro" style driver for its upper range to 500Hz which is a combo I've really come to love.

 

[john61ct]

very funny. too big in every way

 

[JohnnyNG]

Pretty much have to DIY this idea, but it's probably the easiest thing to make as far as speakers go.

The first stumbling block is having the proper active crossovers to tie in a midbass speaker between sub and mains. Can be a great upgrade, though, and a driver like the Eminence Kappalite 3012LF can be put in less than 1ft^3 sealed for awesome midbass since it's not going low (assuming a dedicated sub). One under each main means you can can now high-pass the mains pretty high (300-500Hz) which can make for big gains as well.

 

[Waxx]

Most people seems to forget that the requirement of the OP is a small footprint, that can't accomedate big 15" to 10" woofers like most sugges,. it should be 8" to 6" to the OP request. Tall vented means it react in quarter wave mode, not reflex mode, so it becomes a MLTL style midwoofer that he wants. And nobody makes those really because there is no market for them. MLTL subwoofers are also rare btw, because the cabinet bcomes to big for the actual speaker fashion.

The best you could do is diy, and the easiest will be a short line array of small midwoofers (5-6") in an vented cabinet to get there. MLTL is also possible, but will be much harder to design. The other option is going bigger than you originally requested and then a lot more is posible.

But i would us regular stands for the LS50 and use a ready made subwofer to fill the bottom in if i was you. It's the least complex to do if you can't diy something yourself.

 

[john61ct]

Most people seems to forget that the requirement of the OP is a small footprint, that can't accommodate big 15" to 10" woofers like most suggest

That is true for the front-facing width dimension, but 8" for directional mid-bass should be fine.

For the side-facing depth dimension, that can go to say 12+" so a 10" sub chassis for below 80Hz.

And tall enough for passive radiators below and / or opposite.

 

[john61ct]

proper active crossovers to tie in a midbass speaker between sub and mains.

As stated I have the Outlaw ICBM with six separate channels of bass management. Isn't that "proper" enough?

 

[Flaesh]

Outlaw ICBM

https://outlawaudio.com/products/ic...Thxi5IMZ6VwxrZcoxtNdyEnU3i8srslm1YuV-5chzz5H8 - I didn't see anything about HPF.

 

[kyuu]

Outlaw ICBM

From the spec sheet:

Crossover frequencies: 40, 60, 80, 100, 120 Hz, and bypass

Doesn't seem like that will work for a mid-bass between the mains and subwoofer, unless it's only covering from like 80 to 120Hz maybe. Even then, you need two crossovers on each channel and I'm not sure that is possible, though there may be some way to set that up that I'm not seeing. I guess using three different channels for mains/mid-bass/sub? Though for the mains you would need just a high pass, then you'd need a high pass and low pass on different frequencies for the mid-bass, then finally a low-pass for the sub.

 

[SMc]

This is an amusing topic! I used to use my Polk r30s as speaker stands but I never thought of hooking them up. Even if they were okay for mid-bass, I'd still want a sub.

The Polk t50 review suggests a cheap solution with a sub friendly bass roll-off.

'Polk T50 Review (Floor Standing Speaker)'

Jul 12, 2021

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Polk T50 tower speakers. I bought this recently for $149 from Amazon.

As you can imagine, a floor standing speaker at this price has to be quite light and this one definitely is. I can easily lift it as it weighs less than many bookshelf speakers. What a marvel of cost optimization:

Yes, my system area is dusty. Do you want more reviews or clean listening room???

This is a 2-way speaker with two passive radiators to improve bass response.

Measurements that you are about to see were performed using the Klippel...

• amirm
• Replies: 102
• Forum: Speaker Reviews, Measurements and Discussion

• 

 

[john61ct]

ICBM definitely does both HP and LP for each crossover selection.

I admit haven't delved into it very thoroughly, was planning on using other methods and may still do so in conjunction with the Outlaw unit, that was just an opportunistic windfall.

I appreciate all the inputs here,

but let's use or create a separate thread for the finer points of crossover / pass filtering to keep this thread on the topic of speakers.

And assume a single "bass augmentator" solution covering "bass augmentation say 40-200Hz range maybe higher but no lower for simplicity

no BRuTeS (Bone Rattling fUll-size TruE Subs) in the picture

 

[john61ct]

Polk t50

Footprint check, price point check, cheaper than many stands

bass roll-off maybe a bit too early, I agree requires a sub

 

[Foxxy]

Have you considered DIY? If you can build the boxes, something like the SB23CACS45-4 in 60 liters tuned to 27Hz would give you flat down to 30Hz and have awesome midrange integration at a reasonable price. The Seas Extreme LRoy can do that even better but that's outside your budget.(and it's a 10 inch)

 

[Heinrich]

Footprint check, price point check, cheaper than many stands

bass roll-off maybe a bit too early, I agree requires a sub

DIY may be beneficial because then the fit to the LS50's format could be tailored optimal. Second topic to address is the capability of the woofers to support the LS50 way higher than a dedicated sub could do, say 300-ish Hertz. This driver is nearly flawless up to 400Hz, beyond its performace is still resonable, and it can be had for like 30 bucks.

https://www.products-peerless.com/en/transducer/562 Watch the specified Xmax, which is not too shabby! And it delivers on that, as my checks confirmed. The cone area is on the high side for a 6". The chassis has cut sides, will fit in narrow baffles well.

For good bass equalization is necessary anyway, so be prepared for measuring. Conversely all the nitpicky T/S-parameters and optimal enclosure design is (nearly) obsolete today, when targeting use at home. A simple closed box will do, offering about 20L of internal volume. Box should be stiff, but don't overdo. Paint it matte black, done.

 

[RickS]

The common term for the OP’s requirement is a bass module. Most commercial ones are dedicated to a particular speaker. Have been working on some for Directiva r2. The sizes range all over. The best two in this case use a single RS225, the other uses a Wavecor woofer in a small tower. @TimVG built one. I am currently experimenting with even larger driver for deeper bass. See this Directiva thread for more info or DM me.

 

[Ktacos]

If you're near Ohio USA OP I can make you the boxes, just thought I'd toss that offer in. Not a business just a guy who builds speakers.

 

[chrispdx]

but let's use or create a separate thread for the finer points of crossover / pass filtering to keep this thread on the topic of speakers.

Here's a link to one such thread with a roundup of affordable options (ICBM's keep popping up ... great units!).

 

[ChrisG]

+1 for DIY.

I'd be looking at those SB Acoustics 5"x8" oval woofers.

Depending on how many amplifier channels you'd like to dedicate to this, you could have one or two drivers near the top running up to the crossover frequency, and then a couple more towards the floor adding output below 80Hz.
The end result would need EQ, but the form-factor of those drivers would allow a very narrow cabinet.


Chris

 

[john61ct]

+1 for DIY.

I'd be looking at those SB Acoustics 5"x8" oval woofers.
...
The end result would need EQ, but the form-factor of those drivers would allow a very narrow cabinet.

I don't need to go THAT narrow, I am very impressed by Tang Bang's reputation online, maybe their 6.5" is strong enough vs 8" ?

So a 9" face external width?

Even 11" width is OK, or whatever minimum to use a good 8" woofer.

So, given that, SB Acoustics 5"x8" oval woofers seem like an unnecessary compromise?

not sure how SB23CACS45-4 compares...

 

[john61ct]

So for DIY enclosures, I like the idea of stacking modular short cube-ish boxen for height flexibility, rather than tall towers.

The Cerberus design seems respected, an 11" cube made of 3/4". Maybe rather than ported, go passive radiator(s) on the side(s)?

If I go with 6.5" Tang Bangs, then I could make it a narrower face, maybe go a little deeper or taller if necessary, I am a complete noob about the whole tuning / modeling thing.

Remember, not looking for BRuTeS (Bone Rattling fUll-size TruE Sub) here, no desire for infrasonics (<30hz), just "Bass augmentators", hitting mid-bass cleanly is more important than getting much SPL under 60Hz