Budget tall mid-bass to sub speaker, to act as stand for LS50s

[john61ct]

Hi, I've been picking up OG LS50s at reasonable prices over the years, getting to the point I want to improve my implementation, specifically placement.

In shopping for "proper" stands I can't believe the costs involved even at the low end, but at the high end more than I paid for the speakers!

I've also decided to do supplementary bass, high up enough in frequency to mean "not just subwoofer" maybe even 600Hz (ish) ? but certainly over 200Hz, directionality still relevant, stereo needed for localization / imaging.

So I'm thinking, look for mid-bass boxen that can ACT AS stands, in effect convert my LS50s into floor-standing 3-way speakers

either dedicated to the range between there and 60-80Hz sub territory, or (holy grail would be) "do it all woofer + sub" units within my desired form factor.

Off-grid, tiny-house or even van camping context, so looking for as small as possible to accomplish the assignment, and passive (or DC-driven ? designed for car / boats?) reco's only please not AC powered.

I care almost nothing for aesthetics, only SQ functionality and VALUE is top priority!

Assume a biggish room with EQ room correction and SOTA bass management to optimize crossovers, and for power say Adcom GFA-555 levels, low Z-out plenty of current rather than Class D.

So, sizing: LS50 footprint is 8x11" (20.3 x 28cm) so that would ideally be the minimum, and ideal maximum say 12" square (30.5cm). Deeper is fine more so than going past say 15" wide but willing to be flexible for a spectacular good value result.

Vertically the target range is 24 up to say 36" (60-90cm), while the true ideal would be 12" height so multiple boxen that can be stacked - to accommodate my increasing tendency to work / listen standing up, plus dancing sometimes .

I MIGHT go DIY - feel free to give form factor suggestions (is a square footprint ideal?)

and reco suitable (reasonably priced) drivers say 8" and up, but 6.5" would be even better.

But meantime the main request here is reco's for suitable pre-built speakers.

I came across Rythmik FM8 - that is purpose-built for the "do it all woofer + sub" use case, but a bit beyond my budget; I'd need to scrimp on the kids' groceries many months to get there.

Willing to buy secondhand, so would be great to get a biggish watch list put together for eBay, Reverb, and CL/FB locally.

Bonus question: should be fine to lay the LS50s on their side if needed? thinking if used for Centre channel when in HT mode 5.2

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ricardojoa]

Why would you even want to cross to 600hz?

 

[EERecordist]

There are subs designed for in-wall, or thin/flat subs designed to be hidden behind furniture. You may even find DIY designs with plate amps with crossovers. You could put the LS50s on top of a thin sub on edge, but it will not look as good or perform as well as something like an LS60.

 

[aschen]

I am suprised this is not a more common form factor for subs. You lose a degree of freedom that is valuable for subs: placing them independant of speakers. However you pick up some cleanlyness and probably the ability to cross over a bit higher to mains.

SVS PC 2000 cylinder sub is 34" tall, or stack two parts express flat packs with ultimax 8's or 10. It might be tough to keep the ls 50s secured without some sort of bracket or fixturing

 

[john61ct]

Why would you even want to cross to 600hz?

Not what I said, 150-300Hz more likely, just building in some flexibility.

 

[tifune]

SVS PC 2000 cylinder sub is 34" tall,

I had to put some sticky sorbothane pucks to keep 8331s from dancing around; otherwise no complaints (except for the 2-tone color scheme). FWIW, my better half "likes them more than those big boxes.".

Cost no object, based on OP's preferences, I'd also consider the KH750 as it's flat up to 700Hz IIRC

 

[john61ct]

I am surprised this is not a more common form factor for subs.

Thanks so much for your response, and ofc I agree

But, I'm not looking for "a sub" per se, really the directional mid-high bass region specialization is the hard part it seems, all-in-one is just a "would be nice" especially for spaces too small for a dedicated sub.

> You lose a degree of freedom that is valuable for subs: placing them independent of speakers.

Of course dedicated true subs don't need to be placed for stereo, and that freedom is great I agree, especially with multiple different-sized boxen.

But off topic for this thread.


> SVS PC 2000
not passive - although DC powered would be OK
does not go above 290Hz, if that
pricier than the Rythmik I cited as ideal FR wise.

...

> parts express flat packs with ultimax 8's or 10

Physically too big a footprint.

This is more the route I might go if forced to DIY:

posts/tang-band-microsub-passive-radiator.md at master · mdshw5/posts

blog posts for mattshirley.com. Contribute to mdshw5/posts development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Voxel Subwoofer with Passive Radiator Plans – Toid

Everyone wants good BASS! And the Tang Band W5 has always been one of the top performers when it comes to small subwoofers that can dig down low. There is only one problem, it can move a lot of air! That is why I designed a new slot port for it - which cut down…

toidsdiyaudio.com

 

[john61ct]

Cost no object... KH750 as it's flat up to 700Hz IIRC

Very nice, but only as a fantasy! :-0

See the very first word of my title

 

[dwkdnvr]

I have my LS50-Meta's on top of FM8's (with another LS50-Meta as a center), and I'm very happy with the setup. I have a couple wedges tilting them back slightly since they're a bit below ear level. I use a MiniDSP SHD to handle the crossover which I think is at 150Hz (haven't touched it in forever). Yes, the FM8s are a bit pricey for the objective performance, but at the time I was willing to pay for the fit/finish/convenience.

If I were going to DIY something, I'd look at an RSS265HO + 2PRs. Model this in 1-1.5 cu ft and it's an amazing config down to about 30Hz. I think you could easily make this into a speaker-stand form factor with the only downside being width - the RSS210HO + PRs might be an option for a narrower cabinet, but I've never modeled that setup.

 

[john61ct]

There are subs designed for in-wall, or thin/flat subs designed to be hidden behind furniture.
...
You could put the LS50s on top of a thin sub on edge

Well the prime objective is the "use as stands" part, hence it is true the form factor requirements are pretty limiting.

I suppose with small-enough subs, I could look for a narrow open-shelf side-table from IKEA or similar

or worst case I've see milk crates with open sides, perfect for #3 , but likely to violate #2 in my priority ranking:

>> I care almost nothing for aesthetics, only SQ functionality and VALUE is top priority!

 

[dwkdnvr]

Voxel Subwoofer with Passive Radiator Plans – Toid

Everyone wants good BASS! And the Tang Band W5 has always been one of the top performers when it comes to small subwoofers that can dig down low. There is only one problem, it can move a lot of air! That is why I designed a new slot port for it - which cut down…

toidsdiyaudio.com

Ha. So, my big dream "maybe someday when I have time" DIY project is a KEF Blade 2 knock-off, and my current idea is to use these Tang Band W5s from the voxel as the woofers flanking a Kef coax harvested from a donor pair of speakers. A pair of 4xW5 units is a significant amount of bass - all you'd need in a moderate room for music purposes, I'd think.

 

[digitalfrost]

I've been in your position needing some stands for KEF LS50 and thinking, hey I can put some subwoofers in there. I ended up with a dual opposed design.

Width is identical so the orignals. To make that happen you need 5" chassis. Luckily Tang Band offers a nice subwoofer chassis. If you have more height, it might be possible to build these as bass reflex but they need a lot of volume to make that happen. Also if dual opposed is not a concern you could put 2 on the front or just use 1.

Lot of possibilites with this chassis. Efficiency is low as you can imagine, if you got the space and the volume, I could see 4 of these per side. They are not that expensive.

 

[DVDdoug]

If you just want stands, walk around a home improvement store and see what you can find. You should be able to fine all kinds of storage boxes, tables, or stools, or lots of things you could re-purpose.

Or if you are handy you could make something from wood, or from wood & plastic pipe, etc. Or if you are even more handy you could build your own subwoofers.

 

[john61ct]

I have my LS50-Meta's on top of FM8's (with another LS50-Meta as a center), and I'm very happy with the setup

Wow I bet, inspires me in the "save my pennies" department!

Thanks for that wedge hack for helping the vertical alignment - the ideal would be adjustability like my sit/standing desk

> RSS265HO

10" requires a pretty chunky width, and shooting the active driver sideways would likely be rolling the dice for using the unit in varying spaces with "room mode" issues, being a directional application

FR up to 600Hz looks good though

> RSS210HO

Better, but I'm thinking, if forced to DIY I'd shoot for as close to ideal 8 x 11" footprint as possible - the height can change to give cu ft, so that matters for SQ?

My first impression of the 5-1/4" Tang Band W5-1138SMF and the lighter W5-1138SM neodymium version is good from googling so far

But no idea what "9mm Xmax and 45hz FS" or "compliance" means in this context :-(

 

[john61ct]

Tang Band offers a nice subwoofer chassis.

Great minds think alike!

> If you have more height, it might be possible to build these as bass reflex but they need a lot of volume to make that happen. Also if dual opposed is not a concern you could put 2 on the front or just use 1.

lots more rabbit holes emerging

So far a single facing active + sideways (outwards?) PRs seems good, the lower frequencies being non-directional. Or both forward for simplicity when set up in an 8' wide living space?

> this chassis

Darn I hoped that was meaning Tang Band made enclosure kits!

 

[john61ct]

Ha. So, my big dream

LOL noice but not too stable as stands ;-)

> pair of 4xW5 units is a significant amount of bass - all you'd need in a moderate room for music purposes, I'd think

Are you talking **8** drivers in total ??

I was thinking one pair + PRs, so long as the amp has enough power & current

With four on each side I'd "need" another GFA-555 and put them in bridged mode :-0

/jk

 

[john61ct]

If you just want stands

Well sure, but space being such a premium I'm liking this idea of a "vertical bass specialist" to supplement the main pair.

> if you are even more handy you could build your own subwoofers

Hoping an already built solution cheaper than those FM8s will emerge, but if not, we'll see how inspired I get while saving up for them...

 

[Sokel]

When you think about a tall, thin design you will also have to think of a way to make it stable.
You can eventually end up taking more space than you thought.

Some weight at the bottom could help.

 

[john61ct]

dual opposed design
...
bass reflex

Which design would be OK directly attached to the wall behind?

Maybe even jammed very close to the side wall, for the 8' wide space contingency?

 

[digitalfrost]

Which design would be OK directly attached to the wall behind?

Maybe even jammed very close to the side wall, for the 8' wide space contingency?

These work great as closed box and since they don't need a lot of volume and are not expensive you can just stack as much as you need. From my experience two work great, but my design was for a desk (hence the dual-opposed design). If you have more volume you might be able to make 4 work. Closed box is totally possible if you can EQ. They need like +6dB at 30hz and then just do normal room correction. It will be fine. These chassis have a lot of Xmax. If they are close to the wall I would avoid bass reflex. Might not even need EQ due to the increase in level. In any case they can take it. If you have the ability to shape your bass, depending on the listening level anything from 1-4 chassis per side will work fine. Just consider your volume and space requirements and have at it. If you like DIY just try 1 chassis per side and see what that gets you. You can always escalate later.