Budget speakers to bring new life to old system?

[THX1138]

While I like listening to music, I'm not a true audiophile, and for almost 40 years I've been listening to a system that seemed "good enough" to me, but most enthusiasts would consider junk. It's a 1985 JVC "rack" system, 100 WPC, model A-GX5 integrated amp, bought new at Foley's when I was a teenager. All this time I've even been using the supplied JVC speakers (SK-S44, 3 way, 5" midrange, 12" woofer). Over its life, it's been played pretty loud for many hours, and it has managed not to blow up or burn up, so at least it has that going for it. The speakers are rated by JVC as 35 hz to 20 khz, 120 watts. To my ear, these old speakers still produce a warm rumbly satisfying bass, albeit not tightly controlled. They seem kind of weak on midrange, especially vocals, which sound a bit flattened, lacking clarity and projection.

Decades later, I'm starting to wonder--if I was to spend say $400-700 on a pair of modern speakers, how much could I improve the sound? Thinking of options like JBL Stage A190 or at a stretch, maybe Klipsch RP-8000F. Cerwin Vega has a very traditional 3-way (SL-12) that I also am thinking about, but I know CV doesn't seem to be a very well liked brand. I also wonder about the limitations of the amp, at "only" 100 watts/channel, at driving any of these modern speakers.

 

[Multicore]

Over its life, it's been played pretty loud for many hours, and it has managed not to blow up or burn up, so at least it has that going for it.

Yeah. I wish I could say the same of myself.

 

[Joe Smith]

Gosh, THX, frankly there are a ton of choices out there that would likely improve your sound a good deal. And a lot of speakers that will work ok with 100wpc certainly, if you want to keep your current amp. That's one system for a lot of years, and there are great cheap things out now that sound great.

For speakers, check the passive speaker rankings/recommendations list on this site. If you are used to a 12" woofer, it may be a bit more challenging at your price range if you want to stay with a 2.0 rather than 2.1 system. I'm sure others will chime in. I'm not a big fan of CV in general, but yes, JBL probably has good things in your price range. In modern speakers, I like KEF, Elac, PSB and Paradigm on the budget side of the curve.

If you are willing to also consider an amp upgrade, with larger speakers and if you listen at high power, moving up to a new Yamaha integrated (such as AS-501 or AS-701) or a 2-channel Hypex-based amp from a US maker such as Buckeye, would be a good additional step...

Happy upgrading - 40 years with one system, that's quite something! But yes, what you note about your current midrange reproduction - you will definitely hear a difference.

 

[Joe Smith]

My favorite "high value" speaker currently is the Elac Debut 2.0 6.2 - these are often available from others at a price lower than Crutchfield. Not sure if the bass would be enough for you, though. But they are good smaller speakers for the price and I find the bass satisfying. Or, these plus a subwoofer in a 2.1 setup for lower bass.

 

[Count Dacula]

While I like listening to music, I'm not a true audiophile, and for almost 40 years I've been listening to a system that seemed "good enough" to me, but most enthusiasts would consider junk. It's a 1985 JVC "rack" system, 100 WPC, model A-GX5 integrated amp, bought new at Foley's when I was a teenager. All this time I've even been using the supplied JVC speakers (SK-S44, 3 way, 5" midrange, 12" woofer). Over its life, it's been played pretty loud for many hours, and it has managed not to blow up or burn up, so at least it has that going for it. The speakers are rated by JVC as 35 hz to 20 khz, 120 watts. To my ear, these old speakers still produce a warm rumbly satisfying bass, albeit not tightly controlled. They seem kind of weak on midrange, especially vocals, which sound a bit flattened, lacking clarity and projection.

Decades later, I'm starting to wonder--if I was to spend say $400-700 on a pair of modern speakers, how much could I improve the sound? Thinking of options like JBL Stage A190 or at a stretch, maybe Klipsch RP-8000F. Cerwin Vega has a very traditional 3-way (SL-12) that I also am thinking about, but I know CV doesn't seem to be a very well liked brand. I also wonder about the limitations of the amp, at "only" 100 watts/channel, at driving any of these modern speakers

It would be fun to try a different amp on your existing speakers. This would allow you to "ear" the upgraded amp in a familiar way. I'm only saying because if you compare the old JVC to a modern $100 to $150 amp, there's no way you would want the JVC with the new speakers anyway.

That's a backwards approach, to be sure. New speakers are a given, and the only direction that makes sense, but I am brainstorming a way to get you new speakers as well as be open to adding a new amp ASAP. I just grabbed a Fosi to replace a Sony ES receiver that had a chronic buzz. I didn't even think twice, it tests out amazing...and old rack systems are really just for frat parties. Some similar compact D class amps allow mono operation, so grabbing a second one later to suit you is a piece of cake.

Trust the crew here to guide you with speakers. I don't think you'll be disappointed if you try a new amp immediately, then take a deep breath before you select speakers. Trust me dude, I listen to old R&R Classics now that were not on my playlist 10-20 years ago, but these old songs on a YouTube stream sound great.

I guess, a $100 amp and $600 speakers is better than $700 speakers and the old amp. I know it seems out of balance to spend so little on amplification and so much proportion on speakers, but hopefully it hits a note for you.

 

[rsc1]

While I like listening to music, I'm not a true audiophile, and for almost 40 years I've been listening to a system that seemed "good enough" to me, but most enthusiasts would consider junk. It's a 1985 JVC "rack" system, 100 WPC, model A-GX5 integrated amp, bought new at Foley's when I was a teenager. All this time I've even been using the supplied JVC speakers (SK-S44, 3 way, 5" midrange, 12" woofer). Over its life, it's been played pretty loud for many hours, and it has managed not to blow up or burn up, so at least it has that going for it. The speakers are rated by JVC as 35 hz to 20 khz, 120 watts. To my ear, these old speakers still produce a warm rumbly satisfying bass, albeit not tightly controlled. They seem kind of weak on midrange, especially vocals, which sound a bit flattened, lacking clarity and projection.

Decades later, I'm starting to wonder--if I was to spend say $400-700 on a pair of modern speakers, how much could I improve the sound? Thinking of options like JBL Stage A190 or at a stretch, maybe Klipsch RP-8000F. Cerwin Vega has a very traditional 3-way (SL-12) that I also am thinking about, but I know CV doesn't seem to be a very well liked brand. I also wonder about the limitations of the amp, at "only" 100 watts/channel, at driving any of these modern speakers.

You have a couple of options. Any of them will sound miles better than your current setup.

What's your source? If you don't mind going powered, look into JBL 308P MKii's. They have an 8-inch woofer, so you'll still have good bass if you don't want a sub, and they measure extremely well for the price. No need to buy a new amp, and you'll have some basic EQ settings on the back (LF and HF shelf) to adjust to your taste.

As has been said already, I doubt you'll find smaller bookshelves to have enough bass coming from a 12" woofer. If you want to stick with passives - I'd recommend getting a Fosi V3 Stereo amp with some budget Polk towers. The ES line has more bass, but is a bit scooped out in the midrange. As you want better vocals, I'd recommend the XT60 which is also cheaper. Or you could always go bookshelves + sub of course, but a bit more work is required to get those to play nicely with each other.

 

[kemmler3D]

My 2 cents: get the Elac DBR 62s and then spend $100-200 on a good secondhand powered sub on your local craigslist / facebook marketplace. 100 WPC will get you pretty far if you have a sub crossed high enough. I recently snagged a nice 12" M&K clone for $125. Just takes some patience until the right deal comes along.

Someone eventually says it in every recommendation thread, but EQ for room correction is a game changer. I really mean it. You wouldn't think fixing 20-300hz would change the entire character of the sound, but subjectively it does. To me it's almost mandatory for adding a sub to any system, it's really hard to get a nice even response without doing the whole mic + EQ routine.

You can do without room correction / EQ but if you spend enough time here, you will notice that about 98% of the people that do it are happy with the result, and would recommend doing it.

Even if you don't do the room EQ you're going to hear a massive improvement. I expect it will be so different that you won't be sure what to think at first, but give it a chance and listen to the detail in the mids, and you should be really happy with upgrading to more modern speakers.

 

[THX1138]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback. These are some good thoughts to digest. I'm used to a pretty good bass level without use of a subwoofer, so I hadn't really thought about including a sub (and I don't have a great place to put one.). But it seems like the trend now is towards speakers with somewhat smaller drivers in combination with a sub, instead of bulky main speakers with 12" or 15" drivers. And I hear what you're saying about the amp... although I have a feeling my speakers are the limiting factor on sound quality, I currently have no way of knowing if some of it comes from the amp.

If I make any moves, I'll update the thread.

 

[kemmler3D]

I have a feeling my speakers are the limiting factor on sound quality,

Your feeling is extremely likely to be correct. In general amps can affect sound quality by running out of juice (not that rare) or having a lot of harmonic distortion (fairly rare in the modern era). If you are happy with the bass you're getting then running out of juice is not likely to be a problem. It's very uncommon for the amp to be the limiting factor on sound quality in anyone's system.

People say all sorts of things they hear amps doing to the sound, but when you put them on the bench and test them to try to find those things, they are nearly always mysteriously absent...

Good luck, we look forward to updates.

 

[Count Dacula]

If it came down to it, the Yamaha RS 202 and 303 have gobs of power dirt cheap in AB design, with the classic form factor of a receiver.

I'm not sure a bench test is a definitive guide to amps of the 1990s receiver era. I just retired that Sony ES that came busted from the box, I could not get any good sound from it at all. Whereas my SMSLs far exceed expectations.

This is partly what I was talking about with debuting a nice amp on the old speakers. Of course he'll still want new speakers, but...

Yamaha R-S202 Receiver Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Yamaha R-S202 Receiver (tuner plus stereo amplifier) with Bluetooth. Money was kindly donated by a member for me to purchase it new for $200 from Amazon. The R-S202 harkens back to the old days of receivers being the most popular way to play...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Joe Smith]

Another way to go would be to look for older Polk Audio or Advent 5002 type speakers with larger woofers...these can still sound very good. Polk made some large speakers in their monitor series that have rubber surrounds and sound very good and have very impactful bass.

 

[ta240]

...... It's a 1985 JVC "rack" system, .....They seem kind of weak on midrange, especially vocals, which sound a bit flattened, lacking clarity and projection.....

If the crossover has electrolytic capacitors in it, I'd bet at 39 years old they are dried out and not functioning properly. As they lose capacitance and gain effective series resistance they will alter the function of the crossover.
The ones in the amp could be aging out too but that is a much more complex task.

 

[DVDdoug]

But it seems like the trend now is towards speakers with somewhat smaller drivers in combination with a sub, instead of bulky main speakers with 12" or 15" drivers.

Right! With home theater, a subwoofer is required for the "point one" LFE channel and most people don't want 5 or more full-size surround speakers.

If you have a local audio video store it's probably worth listening to some speakers before you buy, even if you don't buy form that store or exactly what you listen to. Some high-end stores used to let you take speakers home to audition at home. I don't know if that's still "a thing". Or, maybe you can bring your current speakers into the store to compare.

...Several years ago I thought I wanted to upgrade my headphones but after listening to a few 'higher end" headphones in the store, I decided to stick with what I already had.

Integrating an active subwoofer with an audio video receiver is easy. (They have "bass management" to optionally route all of the bass to the sub.)

....
Other than the "trends", basic speaker design hasn't change that much. We still mostly have 2 or 3-way speakers, either sealed or ported. The biggest "breakthrough" was the Thiele-Small research (in the 1970s), followed later by ubiquitous computers & software to match-optimize a woofer and a box. It makes it easier to design a good speaker with less trial-and-error and you are less-likely to run-across a bad-sounding bass reflex speaker these days.

Cheaper electronics has made active studio monitors common but passive speakers are still standard for home stereo and home theater (execpt for subwoofers which are usually active). Once you're putting active electronics into a speaker you can build-in EQ to smooth-out and extend frequency response and most monitors are bi or tri-amplified.