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Budget monitors for mid/far field listening?

Do you think that a passive setup would be better?
The woofers on passive speakers are even smaller so I wouldn't think so but maybe I'm wrong
Passive or active does not matter much (although actives take advantage of the lack of crossover losses and give a little more oomph sometimes) .
What matters is to get a full, balanced sound at your seat.

Big rooms/distances need some more air-pushing, that means both bigger driver and cabinet volume.
I would leave aside all the small "nuances" and get the biggest (decent though) I could if I were you.
Even used if you have the chance to thoroughly test them (NOT blind buys for speakers, you never know their "before")
 
Passive or active does not matter much (although actives take advantage of the lack of crossover losses and give a little more oomph sometimes) .
What matters is to get a full, balanced sound at your seat.

Big rooms/distances need some more air-pushing, that means both bigger driver and cabinet volume.
I would leave aside all the small "nuances" and get the biggest (decent though) I could if I were you.
Even used if you have the chance to thoroughly test them (NOT blind buys for speakers, you never know their "before")
Alright thanks!
 
sometimes
1761522789902.png

;)
3.5 meters is far
I used to have a room about the same size as OP has plus 1 foot in both dimensions, with an MLP ~three meters from the front wall. Over six months, I saved up $666 and bought a pair of 950PBs directly from the venerable Richard Kontrimas. I already had the amps. Two 15" speakers from 18Sound, a couple of JBL 2380 clones, and a Behringer 2496 were easier to find. It made for a pretty fun stereo system, built into the wall between the rooms. Sorry for the romantic personal reminiscences; I'm not sure it'll help:cool:
 
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preference are really extremely different from everyone but I don't think so
I first read Floyd Toole's book in the 4th or 3rd edition. I admit that my preferences, and ours, differ from the average Toole's listeners.
everyone is recommending a 8"
In a past life, I once owned speakers from the same manufacturer in sizes 4", 6", and 8". Although the smaller ones had some audiophile merits, I preferred the 8". (But even here, preferences may differ.)
 
I first read Floyd Toole's book in the 4th or 3rd edition. I admit that my preferences, and ours, differ from the average Toole's listeners.

In a past life, I once owned speakers from the same manufacturer in sizes 4", 6", and 8". Although the smaller ones had some audiophile merits, I preferred the 8". (But even here, preferences may differ.)
Yes I'll get 8" since everyone seems to agree on this
 
How about buying speakers used? I see lots of stuff for sale, for cheap on craigslist or facebook marketplace, or local equivalent? I do second the wiim products, for the ease of EQ. The new ones have both Roomfit EQ, plus graphic/parametric EQ to layer in effects like bass, treble etc.
 
How about buying speakers used? I see lots of stuff for sale, for cheap on craigslist or facebook marketplace, or local equivalent? I do second the wiim products, for the ease of EQ. The new ones have both Roomfit EQ, plus graphic/parametric EQ to layer in effects like bass, treble etc.
I'm not against buying used but I've looked at the used market and there's nothing interesting, it's either really old stuff or overpriced as hell unfortunately.
 
Passive vs active for bass. Active wins. Most speakers of similar design say 6" woofer and a tweeter will go ~10+ hz lower on the active speaker. This is noticeable for bass, the difference from something that goes from 45hz to 55+hz. Look at the -3db point of speakers.

8" woofer vs 6" woofer. 8" wins but not by much typically for bass response. An example would be the Kali LP-6 vs LP-8 or LSR-306 vs 308. The LP-8 only goes 2 hz lower, barely noticeable and the 308 only 4hz lower. The advantage of the LP-8 or LSR-308 is they can play louder before distortion starts happening. Even something like the Adam D3V with a 3.5" woofer has -3db point of 48hz. Only 3db less than the LP-6 but it's volume output will be significantly less capable.

If your listening level is more moderate than you can use a 5 or 6" woofer at your listening distance. If you like to turn it up than you need a bigger speaker. You might have brands that are less expensive there than here in the US. I know Focal is a french company, maybe their speakers are less expensive in France than here. Their studio monitors will play lower on bass than their similar passive speaker. Also, look at consumer active speakers. It doesn't have to be studio monitors.
 
I'm not against buying used but I've looked at the used market and there's nothing interesting, it's either really old stuff or overpriced as hell unfortunately.
I got you covered mon pote
You definitely can find really cool stuff used, here's a good exemple.
Of course it depends on where you live in France.
Anyways I see a lot of kali audio and Adam audio for sale on this site a bit everywhere, you should look into it.
 
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@Nytrex Note that with most active speakers you may need additional devices to connect them to your TV, and it may be inconvenient to control volume or switch them on/off - IME this can be a problem if not all household members are tech-savvy.
Also, a lot of cheaper active speakers have some audible hiss (though at 3,5m distance that shouldn't be a big problem), whereas this is not usually a problem when using passive speakers. If you're hiss-sensitive this is something worth investigating.
That's just a few things to consider. My advice would be to take ease-of-use into account when making your choice as well, not just (hypothetical) sound quality.

Regarding speaker size - note that the difference between a 6" woofer and 8" woofer of the same (active) loudspeaker model typically won't give you a lot more bass extension.
To illustrate, here's a comparison of the anechoic On-Axis response of JBL 306P MkII vs 308P MKII:
1761549113536.png

(source link 1)
And here's for Kali LP-6v2 vs Kali LP-8v2:
1761549244142.png

(source link 2)

As you can see, in both cases there's just a few Hz extra bass extension provided by an 8" woofer - IMHO not very significant, and in any case either size speaker would benefit from a subwoofer for full-range playback.
What you do usually gain with a bigger woofer, however, is the ability to play louder. Compare the 96dB SPL distortion and response linearity graphs for Kali LP-6v2 vs Kali LP-8v2 in EAC reviews and you will see that the 8" version has a bit less distortion at 96dB SPL (very loud) playback level and also less compression in the bass.

What this all means is that when on a budget it will be easier to get meaningful bass extension by adding a sub, but that a bigger speaker does make sense if you need louder playback levels (but again you'd need a sub for full-range playback). Of course the good thing is that you could always add a sub later on.

With passive speakers the difference in low frequency extension with different woofer sizes might be more significant (though I personally don't remember seeing that many passive budget bookshelf speakers with 8" woofers). E.g. if we compare an 8" active speaker (JBL 308P MKII) with a 6" passive speaker (Polk XT20), we see that JBL would probably go down to about 37-40Hz in-room, whereas the Polk would play down to about 45-50Hz in-room - this is absolutely a more significant difference in bass extension:
1761554072548.png

(source link 3)

Next, note that whichever speakers you end up choosing, your room will basically destroy their anechoic bass response. The way to mitigate this for a single listening position (without requiring very expensive room treatment) is to:
  1. Integrate a subwoofer (to avoid SBIR dips in the response, add low frequency extension, and increase system maximum SPL)
  2. Optimize placement of speakers, sub and listening position (to avoid SBIR/LBIR dips in the response)
  3. Use room correction EQ (to remove remaining resonances/peaks from the response)
No reasonably-priced speaker will be able to go around this, I'm afraid. Very expensive full-range cardioid-radiation speakers like D&D 8C, Kii Three etc. may be a different story (to an extent), but there's no point discussing those in this context.

While I understand a sub is out of your budget at the moment, it is perhaps still worth mentioning that there's a few objective reasons to consider adding a subwoofer down the line if one wishes to optimize for sound quality:
  • You can get more low frequency extension for cheaper (than trying to do it with speakers alone)
  • It helps you overcome some acoustic problems with proper placement and integration (mainly SBIR related response dips/nulls)
  • It allows your speakers to play a bit louder (since it takes over the bass, which is where bookshelf speakers struggle)
Of course, if you're just starting out integrating a sub will seem intimidating - which is perfectly understandable and there's absolutely no need to jump into that straight away.
My intention with this post was simply to illustrate that a slightly bigger speaker can't really replace a subwoofer, and that adding a subwoofer will benefit almost any size speaker (because it solves a few other problems).

Hope you find some of this information interesting!
 
I got you covered mon pote
You definitely can find really cool stuff used, here's a good exemple.
Of course it depends on where you live in France.
Anyways I see a lot of kali audio and Adam audio for sale on this site a bit everywhere, you should look into it.
Thanks but unfortunately that's too far away for me. I live near Le Mans to be precise and the used market is pretty empty around me. I only saw too pair of Adam T7V for a little cheaper than used in a 100km radius around me. I know that driving long distances isn't a big deal for most people in some countries but here it kinda is since everything is so expensive (fuel, highway fees...).
 
@Nytrex Note that with most active speakers you may need additional devices to connect them to your TV, and it may be inconvenient to control volume or switch them on/off - IME this can be a problem if not all household members are tech-savvy.
Also, a lot of cheaper active speakers have some audible hiss (though at 3,5m distance that shouldn't be a big problem), whereas this is not usually a problem when using passive speakers. If you're hiss-sensitive this is something worth investigating.
That's just a few things to consider. My advice would be to take ease-of-use into account when making your choice as well, not just (hypothetical) sound quality.

Regarding speaker size - note that the difference between a 6" woofer and 8" woofer of the same (active) loudspeaker model typically won't give you a lot more bass extension.
To illustrate, here's a comparison of the anechoic On-Axis response of JBL 306P MkII vs 308P MKII:
View attachment 485839
(source link 1)
And here's for Kali LP-6v2 vs Kali LP-8v2:
View attachment 485840
(source link 2)

As you can see, in both cases there's just a few Hz extra bass extension provided by an 8" woofer - IMHO not very significant, and in any case either size speaker would benefit from a subwoofer for full-range playback.
What you do usually gain with a bigger woofer, however, is the ability to play louder. Compare the 96dB SPL distortion and response linearity graphs for Kali LP-6v2 vs Kali LP-8v2 in EAC reviews and you will see that the 8" version has a bit less distortion at 96dB SPL (very loud) playback level and also less compression in the bass.

What this all means is that when on a budget it will be easier to get meaningful bass extension by adding a sub, but that a bigger speaker does make sense if you need louder playback levels (but again you'd need a sub for full-range playback). Of course the good thing is that you could always add a sub later on.

With passive speakers the difference in low frequency extension with different woofer sizes might be more significant (though I personally don't remember seeing that many passive budget bookshelf speakers with 8" woofers). E.g. if we compare an 8" active speaker (JBL 308P MKII) with a 6" passive speaker (Polk XT20), we see that JBL would probably go down to about 37-40Hz in-room, whereas the Polk would play down to about 45-50Hz in-room - this is absolutely a more significant difference in bass extension:
View attachment 485851
(source link 3)

Next, note that whichever speakers you end up choosing, your room will basically destroy their anechoic bass response. The way to mitigate this for a single listening position (without requiring very expensive room treatment) is to:
  1. Integrate a subwoofer (to avoid SBIR dips in the response, add low frequency extension, and increase system maximum SPL)
  2. Optimize placement of speakers, sub and listening position (to avoid SBIR/LBIR dips in the response)
  3. Use room correction EQ (to remove remaining resonances/peaks from the response)
No reasonably-priced speaker will be able to go around this, I'm afraid. Very expensive full-range cardioid-radiation speakers like D&D 8C, Kii Three etc. may be a different story (to an extent), but there's no point discussing those in this context.

While I understand a sub is out of your budget at the moment, it is perhaps still worth mentioning that there's a few objective reasons to consider adding a subwoofer down the line if one wishes to optimize for sound quality:
  • You can get more low frequency extension for cheaper (than trying to do it with speakers alone)
  • It helps you overcome some acoustic problems with proper placement and integration (mainly SBIR related response dips/nulls)
  • It allows your speakers to play a bit louder (since it takes over the bass, which is where bookshelf speakers struggle)
Of course, if you're just starting out integrating a sub will seem intimidating - which is perfectly understandable and there's absolutely no need to jump into that straight away.
My intention with this post was simply to illustrate that a slightly bigger speaker can't really replace a subwoofer, and that adding a subwoofer will benefit almost any size speaker (because it solves a few other problems).

Hope you find some of this information interesting!
Thank you for all this information! Like I said I'm not really against adding a sub some day, my wallet is. What I mean is, if someday I have enough money to spare sure I'll add a subwoofer but I don't think that'll have more money to spare anytime soon. Anyway, it's nice knowing all the benefits of adding one thanks

Concerning the ease of use, I'll be the only one to use them so no need to adjust for no tech-savy person. For the volume control I was thinking of a DAC with a remote or a DAC with ARC input (or both like Fosi ZD3). That way it makes the link for the TV outputs to the balanced input of the speakers and let me have some remote control.
 
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Thank you for all this information! Like I said I'm not really against adding a sub some day, my wallet is. What I mean is, if someday I have enough money to spare sure I'll add a subwoofer but I don't think that'll have more money to spare anytime soon. Anyway, it's nice knowing all the benefits of adding one thanks
No problem!

As I said, the intention of my post wasn't to try and convince you to get a sub (TBH I agree it's probably better to start without one initially for simplicity), but rather to point out that having bigger speakers wouldn't solve the same problems as a sub would.

In addition I thought it important to stress the importance of optimized placement and room EQ for sound quality.

Concerning the ease of use, I'll be the only one to use them so no need to adjust for no tech-savy person. For the volume control I was thinking of a DAC with a remote or a DAC with ARC input (or both like Fosi ZD3). That way it makes the link for the TV outputs to the balanced input of the speakers and let me have some remote control.
Sure, there are several ways to go about this, though note that not all of them may have the same functionality, or integrate seamlessly (e.g. consider power on/off of all components, clicks/pops/noises during sample rate changes and power cycling, gain-staging, auto-standby, etc...).
These kinds of things may not seem like a big deal initially, but can sometimes become a source of frustration in the longer run so I thought it worth mentioning as well.

By the way - there are also all-in-one active speakers with HDMI or optical inputs, e.g. Kali MM-6 and Klipsch The Fives. As far as I know neither of them provide room correction EQ capability, sadly.
 
Thanks but unfortunately that's too far away for me. I live near Le Mans to be precise and the used market is pretty empty around me. I only saw too pair of Adam T7V for a little cheaper than used in a 100km radius around me. I know that driving long distances isn't a big deal for most people in some countries but here it kinda is since everything is so expensive (fuel, highway fees...).
Le Mans *gasp* , yeah everything's pretty empty around you in general I guess. There's also the shipping option, but that's an added cost to be negotiated. Leboncoin provides an insurance (12€) for that kind of transaction, though I'm not sure how good it is. If I remember well i saw the Kali LP-6 for 208€ brand new, fits the bill, now that would mean you'd need an interface to connect everything, as mentioned before, but I'm pretty confident you could pull that out for 600€ total.
 
Hi

One more vote (I am biased) for the JBL LSR308. I have owned the for the past 7 years. I have been putting off replacing these for the past 5 year, so good they have been once dialed in the room.
First a bit of truth: Regardless of the quality of the speaker, Performance in the bass region (20 to 500 Hz) is influenced by the room. I have come to the conclusion that to fully enjoy the performance of a speaker, EQ/DSP is mandatory.

The LSR308P by the way are very, very capable in the bass. They do reach 35 Hz with authority.

I understand you have budget restrictions but EQ can be performed in a PC or even on a Raspberry Pi. Something to keep in mind to linearize your system. A very simple system can be had with a dongle/USB DAC and a Raspberry Pi for EQ, Streaming and volume control...
The Raspberry Pi is around 75 Euros, there exist several free EQ/DSP for the Raspberry Pi, among these Camila DSP, and smartphone apps... SO that you stay within budget but assemble a system capable of excellent sound... in your room.

Best.
 
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