Budget dac with asio driver/low latency?

[Infinit0]

Hello all!

I am wondering if there IS any dac out there with asio driver (not asio4all) and low latency. I play a piano as a midi controller and use a laptop to Connect It but realtek onboard has awful latency 10ms and I need something close to 2-5ms and even with asio4all I cant achieve It.

Buying a USB interface IS an overkill (focusrite or smth like that) so I am thinking if there IS anything that could fit.

I need to have headphones output (amp not needed using low impedance headphones but if has an amp is ok too)
And if posible something small/portable.

Any ideas? Some audioquest (looks like scam), some topping device? Smsl, ifi zen?

Thanks!!!

 

[linuxfan]

I play a piano as a midi controller and use a laptop to Connect It

I will guess that you are using direct USB-MIDI connection from keyboard to computer - if not, please let us know.
So you don't need an interface with MIDI inputs, just a basic audio interface with dedicated low-latency drivers -
the Focusrite Scarlett Solo is modestly priced at US$140.
or for about the same money you can get competing products with full MIDI input/output -
- Behringer UMC204HD US$120 (even cheaper on sale at Sweetwater)
or
- Roland Rubix22 US$175

 

[staticV3]

Tempotec Sonata HD Pro ($40), Sonata HD III ($45), or Sonata BHD ($45) all have a driver with native ASIO interface.

I have not seen latency measurements.

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Tempotec Sonata HD Pro Review (headphone Adapter)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $54 on Amazon including Prime shipping. The Sonata HD Pro comes in the usual rectangular dongle size: The differentiation as you can barely see are the volume control...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[phofman]

This is a very interesting discussion about wasapi exclusive vs. asio https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/1376608-asio-still-necessary-low-latency.html . It even shows a setting in Reaper which allows to set small buffers for wasapi exclusive. The guy has exactly the same setup (piano -> midi -> PC -> audio) a is OK with wasapi exclusive + presumably Reaper https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=15922918&postcount=6

Most likely the onboard Realtek supports wasapi exclusive OK (being an internal-bus-connected device it can potentially have a lower latency than USB-audio devices).

 

[linuxfan]

Well I still consider US$140 a modest amount money for a home musician/home recording enthusiast to spend, but wow, those Tempotec dongles are outrageously cheap, and staticV3 is offering a solution which involves no expense at all! We live in good times.

Regarding the stick-with-the-onboard-Realtek option, Google shows me other people in Infinit0's situation simply using ASIO4ALL. I have no idea of the relative benefits of ASIO4ALL versus Wasapi Exclusive.

 

[phofman]

I have no idea of the relative benefits of ASIO4ALL versus Wasapi Exclusive.

ASIO: app ASIO -> vendor ASIO driver
ASIO4ALL: app ASIO -> ASIO4ALL -> WDM -> windows audio mixer/layer -> stock driver
WASAPI shared: app WASAPI shared -> windows audio mixer/layer -> stock driver
WASAPI excl: app WASAPI excl -> stock driver

WASAPI excl is comparable to single-client ASIO, but uses stock drivers. E.g. MS Intel-HDA driver for the Realtek, or MS USB UAC2 driver for UAC2-compliant devices.

Details of FlexASIO bridge (similar in operation to ASIO4All) https://github.com/dechamps/FlexASIO/blob/master/BACKENDS.md#flexasio-backends , authored by windows audio guru @edechamps

 

[MarkBee123]

Motu M2 or M4 (the M4 has a better ADC)

Motu M4 Audio Interface Review

This is a review of Motu M4 4x4 audio interface (DAC and ADC). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $220. The enclosure is heavy gauge metal and sturdy: The front inputs are for microphones with higher gain. For my testing I used the Line in (and out) in the back: For testing I...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[markanini]

ASIO: app ASIO -> vendor ASIO driver
ASIO4ALL: app ASIO -> ASIO4ALL -> WDM -> windows audio mixer/layer -> stock driver
WASAPI shared: app WASAPI shared -> windows audio mixer/layer -> stock driver
WASAPI excl: app WASAPI excl -> stock driver

WASAPI excl is comparable to single-client ASIO, but uses stock drivers. E.g. MS Intel-HDA driver for the Realtek, or MS USB UAC2 driver for UAC2-compliant devices.

Details of FlexASIO bridge (similar in operation to ASIO4All) https://github.com/dechamps/FlexASIO/blob/master/BACKENDS.md#flexasio-backends , authored by windows audio guru @edechamps

It's not a debate about quality. For downscaling purposes, I personally tried using WASAPI excl, FlexAsio, Asio4All, but nothing works flawlessly like native Asio. If your usage case does not involve MIDI instrument performance and DAWs that's a different situation.

 

[phofman]

It's not a debate about quality.

I know, I am giving the chain comparison to show the latency potential.

For downscaling purposes, I personally tried using WASAPI excl, FlexAsio, Asio4All, but nothing works flawlessly like native Asio. If your usage case does not involve MIDI instrument performance and DAWs that's a different situation.

That's why I linked the post by a Wasapi excl. user who has the same usecase as you - MIDI keyboard - > sw synthesizer -> audio output.
What issues specifically did you have with Wasapi exclusive?

 

[edechamps]

ASIO4ALL: app ASIO -> ASIO4ALL -> WDM -> windows audio mixer/layer -> stock driver

That's incorrect. ASIO4ALL uses WDM/KS internally. On Vista+, WDM/KS does not go through the Windows mixer - it goes to the WDM audio driver directly.

WASAPI shared: app WASAPI shared -> windows audio mixer/layer -> stock driver
WASAPI excl: app WASAPI excl -> stock driver

Technically these go through WDM/KS internally just before they reach the driver, but I guess that's a detail.

 

[phofman]

Etienne, thanks a lot for entering the discussion.

That's incorrect. ASIO4ALL uses WDM/KS internally. On Vista+, WDM/KS does not go through the Windows mixer - it goes to the WDM audio driver directly.

Thanks for the correction. I could not google out what backend Asio4All uses. How do you determine this info? I use linux where the sound layers offer lots of troubleshooting tools/support, but do not know how to get deeper in windows.

Technically these go through WDM/KS internally just before they reach the driver, but I guess that's a detail.

IIUC WDM/KS is the API for the actual drivers (i.e. interface to the "stock driver").

My list was made from the latency POW. I wanted to show that your FlexASIO or ASIO4ALL along with Wasapi shared involve additional buffers (e.g. IIUC https://github.com/dechamps/FlexASI.../src/flexasio/FlexASIO/flexasio.cpp#L221-L234 ), unlike ASIO and Wasapi Exclusive which operate directly with driver buffers (analogy to device hw in linux alsa). Please correct me if wrong.

 

[edechamps]

Thanks for the correction. I could not google out what backend Asio4All uses. How do you determine this info?

ASIO4ALL does not really mention WDM/KS explicitly anywhere (that I can find), but it does have docs that only make sense if it uses WDM/KS directly, such as this page about WaveRT for example (WaveRT is a WDM/KS concept and is meaningless anywhere else).