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Budget DAC Review: behringer UMC204HD

Sin Hizer

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hello,
my only purpose is to use this equipment as a DAC for listening music from my desktop.
I have an integrated amplifier Pioneer SA-7100 and 2 Pioneer CS88A speakers. Do you think I can get some satisfactory sound with the Behringer 204hd?
Well, I were to receive a Schiit Modi 3 from a friend, but now it isnt an option anymore. The Behringer 204hd is, surprisingly, the only DAC I find where I live. I am almost sure I am going to get one once its the only option right now. But I would like to know in hypothetical terms what I am going to miss in comparison to the modi 3. Anyone could send me any light?
thanks!!

I have the 202HD and it sounds fine compared to a few other DACs I bought for comparison. I doubt you would notice anything.
 

SIY

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nice. I found a Cambridge DacMagic 100 here too. but its more expensive than the behringer. does it worth to pay 1.5x more for it?

For sound? No. If there's a feature that it has that you need, then that's a different matter.
 

Guilherme

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For sound? No. If there's a feature that it has that you need, then that's a different matter.
I've just download some dsf files of Art of Fugue by Bach played by some nice people and I would like to hear it. I think these dsf files are the DSD format, aren't? I found out that my DAC (that's in my ASUS motherboard: http://basewd1.hospedagemdesites.ws/hml/perto/ALC887-VD_DataSheet_0.22c[1]_(1).pdf ) do not play DSD files. Is there a way I can play these files?
I readed that the behringer does not play it too. Is it right? Is it an important feature I will be missing? By the way: I know nothing about all these things. I would like to understand better the relation between the DAC itself and the players and formats. Where can I learn more about it?
 

SIY

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I think that playable format is determined by your player. FWIW, I use JRiver, which does play DSD format.
 

Blumlein 88

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I've just download some dsf files of Art of Fugue by Bach played by some nice people and I would like to hear it. I think these dsf files are the DSD format, aren't? I found out that my DAC (that's in my ASUS motherboard: http://basewd1.hospedagemdesites.ws/hml/perto/ALC887-VD_DataSheet_0.22c[1]_(1).pdf ) do not play DSD files. Is there a way I can play these files?
I readed that the behringer does not play it too. Is it right? Is it an important feature I will be missing? By the way: I know nothing about all these things. I would like to understand better the relation between the DAC itself and the players and formats. Where can I learn more about it?
DACs in general accept DSD in one of two ways. Your built in sound chip on the Asus MB isn't set up to do either. So you need to convert the DSD to some other format like WAV or FLAC or AIFF.

This software will convert DSD64 and DSD128 to FLAC. Then you play the FLAC files. It is a little finicky, but once you see how it works it is easy. But I don't think it supports windows, only Mac and Linux. If you have either of those you convert to 88 khz FLAC and save the file.
https://www.sonore.us/dsd2flac.html

You also could use a software player that can convert on the fly. HQPlayer is one such player. You can download a free trial. In time you would need to buy it. It probably does more than you want. But it is an excellent high quality player.

https://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html

This is a low cost bit of software that can do the conversion. I've not used it myself. It should work.
https://www.xivero.com/xisrc/


I believe you can download a DSD plug in for Foobar 2000 and it will then play DSD as PCM. I don't think I've done that, but a google search would turn up the details of that.

Some other playback software may do the conversion on the fly. I don't know if Jriver does that, but i guess according to SY it will.
 
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Guilherme

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DACs in general accept DSD in one of two ways. Your built in sound chip on the Asus MB isn't set up to do either. So you need to convert the DSD to some other format like WAV or FLAC or AIFF.

This software will convert DSD64 and DSD128 to FLAC. Then you play the FLAC files. It is a little finicky, but once you see how it works it is easy. But I don't think it supports windows, only Mac and Linux. If you have either of those you convert to 88 khz FLAC and save the file.
https://www.sonore.us/dsd2flac.html

You also could use a software player that can convert on the fly. HQPlayer is one such player. You can download a free trial. In time you would need to buy it. It probably does more than you want. But it is an excellent high quality player.

https://www.signalyst.com/consumer.html

This is a low cost bit of software that can do the conversion. I've not used it myself. It should work.
https://www.xivero.com/xisrc/


I believe you can download a DSD plug in for Foobar 2000 and it will then play DSD as PCM. I don't think I've done that, but a google search would turn up the details of that.

Some other playback software may do the conversion on the fly. I don't know if Jriver does that, but i guess according to SY it will.
thanks for the nice answer! I didnt find anything to to the conversion on the fly through foobar. will search more.
what about the Behringer UMC204HD concerning DSD playing?
 

Blumlein 88

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thanks for the nice answer! I didnt find anything to to the conversion on the fly through foobar. will search more.
what about the Behringer UMC204HD concerning DSD playing?
The UMC204HD couldn't play DSD without conversion prior to playback.
 

andreasmaaan

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sorry for using this topic for tips to buy a DAC, but now I'm here... what about the fx audio x6? didnt find any nice review...

Not in the same league performance-wise. Higher noise/distortion and a rolled-off upper treble compared to The UMC202HD or the DAC Magic.

Won't necessarily sound any different, but whereas I'd confidently say the UMC202HD will be transparent, I'd have to say there'd be a good chance the X6 might bring a bit of its own sound to some music, especially given the rolled-off top end.
 

Guilherme

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ok you all convinced me of buying the behringer 204hd in the middle of 2019. 2 years later of its release and still competing with every low budget dacs... that must be a nice equipment.
I will share my impressions when I get one.
 

andreasmaaan

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ok you all convinced me of buying the behringer 204hd in the middle of 2019. 2 years later of its release and still competing with every low budget dacs... that must be a nice equipment.
I will share my impressions when I get one.

Nice :) Just don't expect much of a difference - if any at all - from what you're used to. DACs have to be pretty poor (or unique, depending on your perspective) to sound any different from each other.
 

Guilherme

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Nice :) Just don't expect much of a difference - if any at all - from what you're used to. DACs have to be pretty poor (or unique, depending on your perspective) to sound any different from each other.
I am on my ASUS motherboard's DAC ( http://basewd1.hospedagemdesites.ws/hml/perto/ALC887-VD_DataSheet_0.22c[1]_(1).pdf )
Sure its gonna sound better! My soundsystem is a integrated amplifier Pioneer SA-7100 and 2 Pioneers CS88A speakers. I don't know if this is an adequate equipment for playing digital audio, but at the moment is all I have. I like it. It was bought by my grandfather in the 70's.
 

andreasmaaan

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I am on my ASUS motherboard's DAC ( http://basewd1.hospedagemdesites.ws/hml/perto/ALC887-VD_DataSheet_0.22c[1]_(1).pdf )
Sure its gonna sound better! My soundsystem is a integrated amplifier Pioneer SA-7100 and 2 Pioneers CS88A speakers. I don't know if this is an adequate equipment for playing digital audio, but at the moment is all I have. I like it. It was bought by my grandfather in the 70's.

I wouldn't be so sure actually ;)

That Realtek chip is spec'd for THD+N at -87dB (or -75dB into 33 Ohm on the headphone output). If your normal listening level is 75dB or less (which is not particularly quiet), you will hear no noise or distortion from it. Even if you listen louder, ambient noise and the music itself is very likely to mask any noise and distortion.

Some humans have demonstrated the ability to hear slightly lower levels of distortion with some signals, but not much lower. And it's very dependent on the type of distortion. We don't know enough about that chip to know how it performs at various frequencies (spec is usually given at 1kHz), but assuming the distortion is mostly 2nd-4th harmonic, it's hard to imagine it could be audible with music.

I would not be surprised if you hear no difference (nothing to do with your ears or your equipment btw, this is just how good even cheap DACs are these days relative to human hearing).

PS someone happens to have recorded the output from your on-board DAC to compare against the output of a DAC with significantly better performance (better in objective terms I mean). The files are available here. You might want to listen before deciding to spend money on upgrading...
 

Guilherme

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I wouldn't be so sure actually ;)

That Realtek chip is spec'd for THD+N at -87dB (or -75dB into 33 Ohm on the headphone output). If your normal listening level is 75dB or less (which is not particularly quiet), you will hear no noise or distortion from it. Even if you listen louder, ambient noise and the music itself is very likely to mask any noise and distortion.

Some humans have demonstrated the ability to hear slightly lower levels of distortion with some signals, but not much lower. And it's very dependent on the type of distortion. We don't know enough about that chip to know how it performs at various frequencies (spec is usually given at 1kHz), but assuming the distortion is mostly 2nd-4th harmonic, it's hard to imagine it could be audible with music.

I would not be surprised if you hear no difference (nothing to do with your ears or your equipment btw, this is just how good even cheap DACs are these days relative to human hearing).

PS someone happens to have recorded the output from your on-board DAC to compare against the output of a DAC with significantly better performance (better in objective terms I mean). The files are available here. You might want to listen before deciding to spend money on upgrading...

The files were deleted from mediafire. Anyway, is this Xonar equal to the umc204hd?
Your statement really intrigues me. The UMC204HD is 2 times the price of my motherboard (Asus H81M-C) nowadays. I know that in the case of the behringer one the main purpose is to serve as a interface for recording etc, but... well, what's the point of buying a cheap DAC, then? Like the fxaudio x6, as I mentioned, or even the Modi 3. Maybe for its ports? Like coaxial or optical, for use it on TVs? Or could it be because the average motherboards carry really crap audio interface and the one I got is luckily a nice one? I remembered when I mounted this desktop. I really felt a lot of difference when plugged my equipment in comparison to my previous notebook. There I used some really cheap USB DAC (published as an "adapter") because the 3,5mm was not working anymore.
Well, whether can be any difference or not I will be pleased to compare, then. If there's no real difference in experience between the two dacs, at least I will have some other ports and can use it to record something...
 

andreasmaaan

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The files were deleted from mediafire. Anyway, is this Xonar equal to the umc204hd?
Your statement really intrigues me. The UMC204HD is 2 times the price of my motherboard (Asus H81M-C) nowadays. I know that in the case of the behringer one the main purpose is to serve as a interface for recording etc, but... well, what's the point of buying a cheap DAC, then? Like the fxaudio x6, as I mentioned, or even the Modi 3. Maybe for its ports? Like coaxial or optical, for use it on TVs? Or could it be because the average motherboards carry really crap audio interface and the one I got is luckily a nice one? I remembered when I mounted this desktop. I really felt a lot of difference when plugged my equipment in comparison to my previous notebook. There I used some really cheap USB DAC (published as an "adapter") because the 3,5mm was not working anymore.
Well, whether can be any difference or not I will be pleased to compare, then. If there's no real difference in experience between the two dacs, at least I will have some other ports and can use it to record something...

I'm also looking forward to hearing your impressions :) I think this is probably going to be a borderline case, i.e. where it's hard to know in advance whether there will be an audible improvement. Keep in mind when comparing them that your knowledge about what you're listening to will also play a role in how it sounds (we are only human) and that you will not be able to perfectly level match the two DACs without testing first, so there is scope for error there too.

To answer the question, what's the point? I would say functionality, output power, being sure that the device won't create audible noise and distortion, etc. In some cases using an external DAC might also reduce noise from the laptop's power supply, although I know less about this.

And yeh, some motherboards have better chips than others. There's an interesting comparison chart here. You can see that performance ranges quite widely, even just among the Realtek chips.

FWIW, my (sighted) subjective experience is that my external DACs sound slightly better than my laptop's inbuilt Realtek chip. I'm not sure which chip it is exactly though...

PS you might be interested in reading the outcome of this little study on the subject which was completed recently. In this case, of the 4 DACs compared, there was one that some listeners were reliably able to distinguish from the others - and it was indeed an inbuilt Realtek DAC on a laptop motherboard.
 
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scooter

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Greetings!

I've just performed a loopback test of my HP laptop DAC using RMAA software. I know that the results are limited and masked by ADC stage of my sound card and I cannot get exact measurement numbers for DAC performance only. But still, could you please take a look at an attached PDF report and analyse it? I'm just interested how much the performance of UMC204HD DAC will be superior against my motherboard DAC and will it be highly distinguishable when listening through the same type of headphone amplifier.

Is there any option to somehow isolate and test only DAC using this software?

In the beginning, this is what a test of sound card supported modes came back within RMAA:

RMAA  -Soundcard Supported Modes.JPG

I'm not sure why it says that 32 bits are supported. Windows sound advanced settings for both playback (3.5 mm headphone out) and recording (3.5 mm external mic input) devices show up to 24-bit 192 kHz support only.

And here is a data from sound card manufacturer:

Part Number : IDT 92HD71B
Supplier : IDT
- Microsoft WLP 3/4 premium logo complian.
- 4 Channels (2 stereo DACs and 2 stereo ADCs) with 24-bit resolution.
- Optimized and flexible power management with pop/click mitigation.
- 2 independent S/PDIF Output converters for WLP compliant HDMI/SPDIF support.
- Digital microphone input.
- Integrated headphone amp.
- Sample rates up to 192kH.
- +3.3 V, +4 V, +4.75 V and +5 V analog power supply options.

The 92HD71B codecs are low power optimized, high fidelity, 4-channel audio codecs compatible with Intel's High Definition (HD) Audio Interface.
The 92HD71B codecs provide stereo 24-bit resolution with sample rates up to 192kHz. Dual SPDIF provides connectivity to consumer electronic equipment that is WLP complaint. The 92HD71B incorporates IDT's proprietary technology to achieve a DAC SNR in excess of 100dB. The 92HD71B provides high quality, HD Audio capability to notebook and business desktop PC applications.
 

Attachments

  • RightMark Audio Analyzer test _ [DirectSound] IDT High Definition Audio - Loopback test.pdf
    203.2 KB · Views: 286

Guilherme

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I'm also looking forward to hearing your impressions :) I think this is probably going to be a borderline case, i.e. where it's hard to know in advance whether there will be an audible improvement. Keep in mind when comparing them that your knowledge about what you're listening to will also play a role in how it sounds (we are only human) and that you will not be able to perfectly level match the two DACs without testing first, so there is scope for error there too.

To answer the question, what's the point? I would say functionality, output power, being sure that the device won't create audible noise and distortion, etc. In some cases using an external DAC might also reduce noise from the laptop's power supply, although I know less about this.

And yeh, some motherboards have better chips than others. There's an interesting comparison chart here. You can see that performance ranges quite widely, even just among the Realtek chips.

FWIW, my (sighted) subjective experience is that my external DACs sound slightly better than my laptop's inbuilt Realtek chip. I'm not sure which chip it is exactly though...

PS you might be interested in reading the outcome of this little study on the subject which was completed recently. In this case, of the 4 DACs compared, there was one that some listeners were reliably able to distinguish from the others - and it was indeed an inbuilt Realtek DAC on a laptop motherboard.
It arrived today and I've just installed it. I can't say its an enormous difference and I do not have the right setup to AB them fast enough to make a blind test and then have the right epistemic evidence (and if i keep the 3,5mm at the MB it leads to a lot of noise on the behringer), but I do can say that at higher volumes, mainly, I feel really better with Behringer. I do not feel that the music is mixing, blending, kneading (?) like I do when listening to a choir on MB sound. On Behringer It's better distinguished and concise. Well, I can say a bunch of subjective impressions, but the most important is that I can feel some differences, and these differences are positive to my ears. I think it worths and now I have some other ports to use as well.
Will be reporting some more when I feel up to.
Thanks!
 

Guilherme

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You all can help with an idea I had, in order to achieve a task for a friend: I need to convert some K7 tapes into digital audio and am seeking for the best way. Would it be an option maybe connect 2 RCA from a nice tape deck to the 2 XLR (maybe just 1) ports on behringer and then record it through Adobe Audition?
 
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