Budget 2000€ : Streamer, DSP, DAC with Dirac Live & 2 subs, if possible stéréo

[Ruediger]

I suggest to take it slow. Purchase decisions might change with experience.

Maybe get the streamer, use it with your amp and speakers.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

Actually, never thought about this possibility.

Buy the WiiM Ultra and 3E 7A to get going and see if I need the minispd and DAC later since this extension is possible.

 

[ZolaIII]

@RaymondFromThePyrénéés you didn't get it. For digital XO you need multichannel DAC with synced clocks. So no digital MiniDSP but analog one. You don't need cuple of mounts to learn, you can get going and learn more then basics in cuple of days (even hours). Of course you can experiment and perfect it as long as you live but that's another pair of slippers entirely.

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You don't have to buy anything, eventually a measurement microphone for speakers and can play with a PC or your phone (for headphones) regarding getting to know PEQ filters, FIR, how it works and so on. In DIY category for the money or little more it's posible to get and make two 16~18" sub's and PA that run them and does audio DSP processing for whole thing but I don't believe you want to go there.

 

[Ruediger]

Buy the WiiM Ultra and 3E 7A to get going and see if I need the minispd and DAC later since this extension is possible.

You can start using REW and put what you learn into the WiiM RoomFit/PEQ too.

It's no MiniDSP but to get things going while learning, it can do a lot.

I've got a feeling once you have the streamer and the amp you will look at your speakers next.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

This is a process like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde Of course all we do here is a hobby, playing around.

I wake up in the morning feeling a great pull towards a separate minidsp dac solution even if it does not seem like a very good solution in terms of performance these old dsp's,
and then in the evening Lyngdorf takes over and its incredible room correction software that come included with free software updates that Paul told me about.

And now you Zola come back to me with THE solution !

I buy a Lyngdorf, l have an offer for a used one I can pick up for 990€, seems like a good price. A stereo active sub is possible with a Y connector for my DIY line Array's that are easy to drive and for a futur open baffle, no problem.
I can also ad to this outlet an amp in case the 2x 60w ohm is a problem with my vintage speakers who do not need any subs.

So now you gave me the solution to learning about all this on the same time as having a good Lyngdorf sound. Great.

Actually I have 5 years ago when my friend sold me his diy line array, a PC set up with a RME Digiface USB and 2 Alientek amps, one for the tweeters, the other for the mediums, so I suppose this was bi amping.
My friend, a high tech student in Toulouse did all the setting up and corrction so I did not learn anything back then but the sound was great with these line arrays even without subs.

The strange thing was that the difference between corrected sound and without correction was very little, at least to my ears. I had my setup in our 5x6m big sleeping room so there was a large bed behind the listener and lots of clothes behind the speakers.

The software my friend used was free. REW, and I think it was rePhase.

Doing like this, Lyngdorf to get going listening to music, thank you Paul,
and my old PC that has only 4 years, a mike that I need anyway for REW, I can now use to learn about all these terms and procedures on the same time.

Is my REM Digiface USB still good for this or if not I can sell it and buy another whatever I need for a PC setup.

So thank you Zola, you just added the missing part of the puzzle !

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

Perhaps the RME ADI-2 FS is more adapted for a PC setup than the REM Digiface USB ?

 

[Ruediger]

Well, you can narrow it down to things you need either way. That's the streamer I guess. Skip poweramps if you get an amp anyway.

As for the central unit - Denon, Lyngdorf, multichannel DAC - I suggest not to make a lifetime decision. Help yourself to good options and room to evolve. Have enough power for your speakers. Decent build quality. If you grow out of it in some years so be it, swap it for the next thing.

It's kind of an old saying but with all these rather cheap options today more important than ever: the biggest part of your budget should be speakers. That's where the difference is to be had. If you can save elsewhere to get better speakers, great. Nowadays probably accompanied by: the most time spent should be on the room, setup, measurement, getting the most out of your gear.

The WiiM is very user friendly but that doesn't mean too limited. You can do a lot with it's software already.

 

[voodooless]

Perhaps the RME ADI-2 FS is more adapted for a PC setup than the REM Digiface USB ?

You don’t need extra DACs. Keep it simple.

 

[ZolaIII]

You need as much separate analog DAC chenels as much things and crossovers you need or intend to use and they all need to use same quarts oscillating cristals and synced between if more pairs involved. For two speakers or headphones it's just two +1 for each crossover you implement if it's on two chenels then it's of course +2.
You have two line signal paths on regular equipment unbalanced and balanced today taken as 2V and 4V as a standard. Unbalanced is home but can pick up loop noise which again ain't that hard to deal with and good up to 5~10 m length of cables depending on their quality (still AWG guidelines). Balanced has a drain and won't exhibit ground loops and it's well suited for cables longer than 25 m, for very long ones there are pro stage interfaces (PC USB optical, legacy Fire Wire and so on) that can pump out much more (9V and more) in order to compensate for any level loos. The balanced (still when done properly) have SNR of or over 120 dB while unbalanced ones when done great which usually ain't case (but if not dreadful still over 90) reach 110 dB. On very most of gear ever made is either or that's why it's path (to a point of one hand finger examples of gear where you can mix them both as MiniDSP SHD).
You can learn to DSP and not that hard without a dime for headphones and with half deacent measurement mic using a PC or laptop (phone even) and any stereo DAC you might have (integrated or stand alone).
You have closed box semi automated DSP boxes and open box open design software solutions still mostly for PC's as DAW's or more simplified players that can be forced on system level (on OS platforms that really ain't open as you won't have need for any of that if you work producing in DAW or like an Linux user anyhow).
Hope that explain at least (good) part of it to at least level of having a clear picture of what and how it is.

 

[Bland_username42069]

You seem torn between many options. (Because everyone has their own preferred way of doing things)

Before doing anything use your computer and try using that to EQ your existing system.

You already have the microphone and REW is free so … try that first

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

Thank you Zola and Bland.

I suppose that you refer to something like this for a dedicated computer setup :

Player: Foobar2000 (free) with WASAPI/ASIO exclusive mode—bit-perfect output.

ALC 1220 Gigabyte AORUS Master, ASRock Steel Legend

DSP Engine: Equalizer APO (system-wide) + Peace GUI—parametric EQ, crossovers, FIR filters, room correction.

Measurement: REW (Room EQ Wizard) + cheap USB mic (Dayton IMM6)—measure your speakers/room for custom filters.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

I also have to add an external DAC
I think ?

 

[Bland_username42069]

I also have to add an external DAC
I think ?

What’s your existing system?

 

[Redacted]

I also have to add an external DAC
I think ?

Yes, ideally, if you go PC-based, as PC DACs can be noisy. At least every PC (of maybe 50?) I've ever used has been .
For me, I'd pick a Topping DX1 -II when they are in the shops. No need to spend a lot on anything pretending to be "better".

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

What’s your existing system?

2 line array speakers with only medium and tweeters and a pair of vintage speakers 87db and a pair of bookshelf speakers.

That is all.

 

[RaymondFromThePyrénéés]

Yes, ideally, if you go PC-based, as PC DACs can be noisy. At least every PC (of maybe 50?) I've ever used has been .
For me, I'd pick a Topping DX1 -II when they are in the shops. No need to spend a lot on anything pretending to be "better".

Yes, that is what audiophonics told me, PC is noisy, so i will buy an external DAC and a PC starting from scratch. And ask a PC repairshop to take away everything they possibly can in hard and software.

Should I use windows 10 or 11 ?

 

[Redacted]

I use both Win10 and various Linux, and I doubt I'll buy from Microsoft again, but for you, you'll be better off using Win11.
You should strip all the spyware off it (lots online about this), and maybe look up Audio Processing Objects, but really, the performance of any PC from the last 10 years is way more than enough for audio, if that was a concern - do use SSDs of course.. You really don't need anything fancy. Apart from Audiophile-grade rubidium crystal Ethernet cables or platinum WiFi waveguides.

 

[ZolaIII]

Well Windows 10 is deead and 11 brings LDAC BT suport. I use JRiver paid player for WDM suport that simply works as I had issues with EQ-APO but EQ-APO is fine, free with REW integration and pretty much supporting all JRiver can (including WDM, third party plugins and so on). I use deticated PCI-E card and downgraded to SB Z SE from AE-5 Plus for optical Toslink input. Use Jremote2 app to control playback trough the phone. It's not noisy for music playback as system is mainly idling, when you put pedal to the metal with some demanding game or or GPU intensive video processing (MadVR) it becomes so but far from very loud. For educational purposes any integrated codec sound card will do as long as you don't need 2 V out but 1~1.4 V is enough (old SB Z SE clips on 2.2 V it's max out but at 1.87 V it performs same or better as newer AE-5 [old CS DAC vs new ESS 32 one]).
You can get external multichannel interface but that means going balanced in flawar of Motu or Tooping and it won't really cost you less than unbalanced MiniDSP Flex or perform better (and cost will pile up going all the way balanced). Basically paying for good ADC's in that case which you really don't need.

 

[Redacted]

Well Windows 10 is deead and 11 brings LDAC BT suport. I use ........

No disrespect to Raymond, or you, but is this possibly information overload? I've done this too, so I'm not picking on you.
Maybe I have misread him, but he comes across as not being well-versed with many audio things on this site, but I do know he is aware that there is more than one way to skin a cat...

Maybe Raymond can re-iterate what he's trying to get from a system for his €2000, and what parts he already has that he wants to to keep? (I'm old and I lose track of what's in the threads)

 

[Ruediger]

A PC on the same network as a WiiM can just send streams to it.

Local output has other purposes, but for music listening and getting that over to the stereo, local output, dac etc. are redundant.