Buckeye Purifi Eigentakt 1ET9040BA monoblock power amplifier Stereophile Measurements

[rdenney]

5W for a normal tweeter yes.maybe.
There are people around though at HT madness using piezo's that can stand much,much more.
Can't narrow use cases.

Okay, I see some piezo tweeters that claim to handle 100 watts RMS. That’s the most I could find.

That’s still one-third the power output of my amp.

Seriously, are movie sound effects recorded with dynamics that would make use of that in any playback application? I’m not thinking of large-scale PA systems here.

Rick “reporting them to the ASPCA ” Denney

 

[NTK]

5W for a normal tweeter yes.maybe.
There are people around though at HT madness using piezo's that can stand much,much more.
Can't narrow use cases.

Let those who want piezo tweeters run the test themselves. Don't burden the rest of us with their special requirements.

 

[Sokel]

Okay, I see some piezo tweeters that claim to handle 100 watts RMS. That’s the most I could find.

That’s still one-third the power output of my amp.

Seriously, are movie sound effects recorded with dynamics that would make use of that in any playback application? I’m not thinking of large-scale PA systems here.

Rick “reporting them to the ASPCA ” Denney

There are more,some even claim 400W much lower than 20kHz though,like this one with a quick search.
Or like the Ciare's who claim 250W AES-500W program,etc,at lower freqs,though,like2kHz.
I have heard of other even standing 1kW transients.

There's all kinds out there.

 

[antcollinet]

95dB average is absolutely super loud and if you don't think so, you've either got serious hearing loss or you haven't actually stood in a room with an SPL meter listening to it before. Speaking from experience, if there is 95dB pink noise going, most people either leave the room or cover their ears.

It is I agree - it is definitely not for me. Some people want to be able to recreate dance club levels or concert levels though. But not with pink noise.

 

[Sal1950]

95 dB subwoofer output @ 20 Hz is just audible. You can't talk about loudness without frequency. A SPL meter is useless for that reason.

Ok, good point. I'll still say 95dB broadband or midrange is subjectively "really loud".

That's the main reason for using some form of DEQ or dynamic loudness curve.

 

[Salt]

Can you elaborate a little? Depending on the experiment or the result one is researching, absolute values have a place in studies as well.

It's the other way around in medicine: it's not the absolute, but a (depending on what is stastically used) relative benefit.
Example: last year a new LDL lowering thing was introduced, with a NNT (number needed to treat) of 66 (so 65 do not profit).
The relative RR (risc reduction) was 50 %, while 99 % of those using the medicamention vs. 98 % not using it did not encounter a cardiovascular incidence.
1 % absolute difference though 50 % relative risc reduction.
But that is, where guidelines are made around ...

 

[Sokel]

Let those who want piezo tweeters run the test themselves. Don't burden the rest of us with their special requirements.

It's frequent that niches reject their niches,I know.
But those still need amps,so...

 

[Buckeye Amps]

It's the other way around in medicine: it's not the absolute, but a (depending on what is stastically used) relative benefit.
Example: last year a new LDL lowering thing was introduced, with a NNT (number needed to treat) of 66 (so 65 do not profit).
The relative RR (risc reduction) was 50 %, while 99 % of those using the medicamention vs. 98 % not using it did not encounter a cardiovascular incidence.
1 % absolute difference though 50 % relative risc reduction.
But that is, where guidelines are made around ...

No I understand all of that but what I was saying (based on my own experience doing medical experiments and publishing in scientific journals) is that absolute values do have roles in experimental data. Meaning it isn't black and white and depends entirely on the experiment one is carrying out.

 

[SIY]

Won’t more than around 5W in the top octave fry a tweeter voice coil in a short time?

But we are supposed to test sustained output right up to 30KHz at hundreds of watts?

Rick “testing 19-20KHz IMD at full power would kill any tweeter in seconds” Denney

What's being conflated here is what the designer should test during development and engineering validation versus what a reviewer should test for consumer edification.

 

[NTK]

It's frequent that niches reject their niches,I know.
But those still need amps,so...

Meaningless statement. If in your world sending hundreds of watts at 19 & 20 kHz to your tweeter is a normal use case, do the test yourself and find the amps you need yourself.

 

[Sokel]

Meaningless statement. If in your world sending hundreds of watts at 19 & 20 kHz to your tweeter is a normal use case, do the test yourself and find the amps you need yourself.

???
My post was about tweeters that can stand more than 5W,regardless the test,any test,what's meaningless about it?
I sincerely try to understand your rant.You don't want them to exist for some reason?

 

[EdW]

Yes, but only if you set it to the right gain. Set gain too low, that 4Vrms will not meet rated power. Set gain too high, you'll be clipping way beyond 1%, probably in the 10% range or worse. The point I'm saying is that the needed input voltage for 0dB output will depend on the set gain of the amplifier.

The Purifi module itself has a 14.4dB gain, so you'll need 10Vrms to meet its full power specs. I know this is an extreme example if one has no buffer to provide the extra gain, but you get the point. Full power output depends on the overall gain and input voltage into the amplifier.

An unbufferd Purifi amp is not compatible with many preamps or DACs. The drive level, as you point out, is very high and the load the Purifi input stage imposes is a quite low impedance. So a buffer to raise the sensitivity to match the drive level/capability of typical DACs and preamps is pretty much mandatory.

 

[David_M]

@David_M It is not about “musical information”, such view is pointless. 50W CCIF test is used to check HF linearity, proper module function and proper implementation. 5W tests nothing. Amplifier design is an engineering discipline, it is not about opinions and speculations on music signal content.

5W IMD tests at 18kHz/19kHz are not nothing, imho. Considering these signals are -40 dB in actual music relative to mid-bass at 0dB, it implies the amplifier at mid-band outputs 10^4 * 5 = 50,000 Watts or 500,000 Watts for that same IMD test at 50W !!! Are any of these powers realistic in consumer audio? No! 5W is plenty enough to determine if the amp generates ample distortion products at 1kHz.

I'm surprised by @SIY graphs. The 1W and 100W plots look remarkable similar. There's little information at 100W that I couldn't glean from the 1W plot. The rise in noise floor for one channel at -145dB to -140dB at 1W across the entire frequency band is not something anyone should worry about at all...ever!

A more important benefit to the 5W tests is that it stresses the input buffer more than it would at 50W. The signal amplitude into the buffer at 1W is lower than it would be at 50W (about one-third smaller), revealing whether the entire amp is noise or distortion limited by the buffer. The graphs above prove the point. Easier to get superb noise and distortion specs at high power than you would at lower power.

We need a reference standard to compare all amps equally ... IMD at 5W wins!

 

[David_M]

An unbufferd Purifi amp is not compatible with many preamps or DACs. The drive level, as you point out, is very high and the load the Purifi input stage imposes is a quite low impedance. So a buffer to raise the sensitivity to match the drive level/capability of typical DACs and preamps is pretty much mandatory.

My Anthem D2v and AVM90 pre-pros generate up to 11Vrms. Many HT pre-pros are designed to be placed far away from the main amplification components which are closer to the speaker. Hence the max high voltages they generate for maximum SNR.

 

[KSTR]

There are more,some even claim 400W much lower than 20kHz though,like this one with a quick search.

No, they neither dissipate 400W nor does the amp have to deliver that power. Piezos are capacitors with only little losses (compared to VC-based drivers etc). But tolerable losses are still just a few watts, and they also can break mechanically.
Excellent article on piezo here: https://www.pispeakers.com/PIE_Speaker_Application_Note.pdf

 

[Sokel]

No, they neither dissipate 400W nor does the amp have to deliver that power. Piezos are capacitors with only little losses (compared to VC-based drivers etc). But tolerable losses are still just a few watts, and they also can break mechanically.
Excellent article on piezo here: https://www.pispeakers.com/PIE_Speaker_Application_Note.pdf

So they're lying,I believe you.
To tell the truth when I look at how much power something can stand I look at voice coils.
I would trust a Radian's 4" VC for high SPL application much more.

 

[KSTR]

So they're lying,I believe you.

They are not lying, it's called specmanship ;-)

 

[Sokel]

They are not lying, it's called specmanship ;-)

In my book they do,and they assures us for it too!

Pff...

 

[Neuropsychology]

Stop replying everyone so @Buckeye Amps will stop reading and get my amp to me

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

There are more,some even claim 400W much lower than 20kHz though,like this one with a quick search.

That is Powerline Motorola piezos - they have miniature lamp inside, as a dynamic compressor. So, they maybe withstands more power, but they do not deliver much more SPL.