Buckeye Purifi Eigentakt 1ET9040BA monoblock power amplifier Stereophile Measurements

[Doodski]

"The Buckeye high IMD problem." That seemingly points to Buckeye Amps as a issue and not Purifi.

 

[tmtomh]

"The Buckeye high IMD problem." That seemingly points to Buckeye Amps as a issue and not Purifi.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Holmz]

"The Buckeye high IMD problem." That seemingly points to Buckeye Amps as an issue and not Purifi.

Things often get labeled with the place of origin, sort of like the Spanish flu, etc.

The only possible “fault” one can point to with Buckeye, is that if one (a customer) wants to save money by selecting an amplifier where they foregoing testing and documentation, then there is a chance that in odd cases something can be ‘off’.
It is a rarity, but obviously in this case, it happened…

To me this doesn’t reflect badly at all on Buckeye, but it is noteworthy that the MA amps are all tested.
Some speakers are also all tested with a few manufacturers, but it is also somewhat rare.

No, it doesn't.

Correct.

 

[SMPSGuy]

Uhm no.
Try running a company where you manufacture a product and over time you'll understand why you don't want to do this.

What manufacturers do ... they track the SN numbers for components used in manufacturing by lots.

OK... I get the traceability of components but the module is a component and will have it's own serial number. Would that work better?

 

[SMPSGuy]

Lars himself stated there was a misplaced (reversed?) diode.
Diodes are often implemented in protection/limiting roles.
There is a pot on the board. You can see it.

Thanks for the picture. The wrong diode with a pot might make sense, apart from it being a diode and relying on a pot to adjust a set point. Putting the diode in the wrong way around and expecting that adjusting a pot will solve it being conductive in the wrong direction is slightly beyond comprehension.

 

[im_gumby]

OK... I get the traceability of components but the module is a component and will have it's own serial number. Would that work better?

Wow, you at least got the right Gumby reference, although I am known to say Semper Gumby!

No. You missed the point.
It depends on what you're building, the size of your organization and your vendors who supply you.
Again you don't put the S/Ns on the product.

Another reason... supposed it comes in for service.. you replace a module. Regardless of warranty, now the module's SN doesn't match the chassis.

You have to consider the logistics of even capturing the data.

You're on the line. You scan the barcode / QR code of the chassis which is the product's SN. You're placing a module into the chassis. Before you do, you scan the module's SN that's on the card. (Assuming that it has a barcode/ QR code which can be scanned. ) If not, then you have to manually enter it. All of this takes time, and to manually enter it takes longer. Now if its an automated process, the computer has to do this.. either scan the bar code/QR code or use OCR to find and record the S/N of the component.

Then you have to have the database update this and track it.
Then when you package it. You put a printed sticker on the box which has the S/N and a barcode / QR code for that unit. When you pack it... you scan all of the packages on the pallet and then wrap it. Then when you ship, you track the pallet id.

All of this is tracked and sent back to your central DB.
Now you have the product info out to the distribution site. Who then probably tracks the store selling the product which would then scan it at the point of sale and associate it with a customer. (Cash makes it harder.)

Then you have the customer who needs to register it w you so you can contact them about warranty issues.

Every step and its time of entry is in the system as well as who built the system. (Or installed the part when manufacturing the unit. ) Even if the build process is automated.

IBM tried to sell block chain as a way to help w this ... but that's a different story.

 

[im_gumby]

Things often get labeled with the place of origin, sort of like the Spanish flu, etc.

The only possible “fault” one can point to with Buckeye, is that if one (a customer) wants to save money by selecting an amplifier where they foregoing testing and documentation, then there is a chance that in odd cases something can be ‘off’.
It is a rarity, but obviously in this case, it happened…

To me this doesn’t reflect badly at all on Buckeye, but it is noteworthy that the MA amps are all tested.
Some speakers are also all tested with a few manufacturers, but it is also somewhat rare.



Correct.

It depends on what you're testing.
You could test and still miss this.
The amp still worked, right?

I think earlier in the thread Amir pointed out that you would have to consider what to test.
Here its very likely you'll miss it and still have an issue.

As it is... if you look at the failure rates and issues... this sort of thing is rare. Not worth the expense of trying to test it. And even if you did, you'd only test a sample for QC. Not every unit.

Its just that this issue happened to a unit that was sent for review.
Had it been sent to you... and be honest... would you even notice the issue?

 

[SMPSGuy]

No. You missed the point.

RM a product get a new sticker. You don't have to invoke IBM or Blockchain in an effort to rescue yourself.

 

[SMPSGuy]

I think earlier in the thread Amir pointed out that you would have to consider what to test.
Here its very likely you'll miss it and still have an issue.

Well. There you go. Buckeye missed the issue which is likely to be missed and March Audio is claiming bonus points supposedly with reversed diodes and tweaking a pot to solve the problem and shitting on Buckeye.

 

[im_gumby]

RM a product get a new sticker. You don't have to invoke IBM or Blockchain in an effort to rescue yourself.

Its not that simple.

Think about it... how many stickers? Where do you put it?
And think about the potential issues w stickers getting rubbed off. Go on keep thinking thru the problem.

And my point was about IBM's attempt of using blockchain was a joke but that's a different story.

 

[im_gumby]

Well. There you go. Buckeye missed the issue which is likely to be missed and March Audio is claiming bonus points supposedly with reversed diodes and tweaking a pot to solve the problem and shitting on Buckeye.

Uhm no.

Go run a factory and actually build something.
Me?
I'm the highly paid IT architect who deals with the data and systems around it.
But then again, I try to avoid working on retail systems. haven't done anything hands on in almost 30yrs in retail.
Been covering FinTech and other things.

 

[SMPSGuy]

I'm the highly paid IT architect who deals with the data and systems around it.

And there you have it. I will not bother trying to toot my own trumpet.

 

[im_gumby]

And there you have it. I will not bother trying to toot my own trumpet.

Sorry, you're the guy who says ... well you should have done X and its that simple.

But in reality, its not.
Clearly you've never worked in manufacturing or in the IT systems that capture and track the data.

And you haven't spent any time really thinking about the problem.
Go look at your automobile.
While there's a vin number all over the place... when there's a recall based on a component/module failing... like your airbags... do you have a sticker for that?
How do they track the components and issue recalls?

Yeah...
Now think about how you do this for other systems.
Its not that simple. There is no standardization.
(I mean there are standards but they are not standardized.)

Enuf said.

 

[Galliardist]

Things often get labeled with the place of origin, sort of like the Spanish flu, etc.
.

Or mislabeled - "Spanish flu" originated in Kansas.

 

[Hayabusa]

Go look at your automobile.
While there's a vin number all over the place... when there's a recall based on a component/module failing... like your airbags... do you have a sticker for that?
How do they track the components and issue recalls?

automotive is one of the counter examples I would say, each module in the car is care fully versioned, labeled, ID readable by OBD etc..

 

[im_gumby]

automotive is one of the counter examples I would say, each module in the car is care fully versioned, labeled, ID readable by OBD etc..

So you have the vehicle's vin metal tags or engraved numbers all over the vehicle. But its the vehicle itself not the part .

In my example. Where do you have the airbag s/n engraved or labeled on the outside of the car?

That's the thing. He kept saying that all you need to do is to put the S/N of each component on a sticker on the outside of the amp's chasis and that's it. Its so simple.

But its not and while you look at a car... you can bet as its being built and components are going in... if there isn't a s/n for a specific card/board, or whatever... there's a lot number so that if there's a problem its traced to the lot which is then traced to the cars in that lot so you can contact the owners for a recall.

So no, its not a counter example. It goes specifically to the point. You don't just put a sticker of the S/N on the outside of the car and that solves it.

And you're going to say.. as the consumer, open up your car's dash to look at the s/n of a specific part? Really?

 

[AudioJester]

Things often get labeled with the place of origin, sort of like the Spanish flu, etc.

The only possible “fault” one can point to with Buckeye, is that if one (a customer) wants to save money by selecting an amplifier where they foregoing testing and documentation, then there is a chance that in odd cases something can be ‘off’.
It is a rarity, but obviously in this case, it happened…

To me this doesn’t reflect badly at all on Buckeye, but it is noteworthy that the MA amps are all tested.
Some speakers are also all tested with a few manufacturers, but it is also somewhat rare.

.


Correct.

Remember March speakers and the binding posts? That was a MA issue rather than a supplied component. No boutique manufacturer will be completely immune to these kinds of issues - its how they deal with them when identified. By the way, do you have some sort of connection with March? You seem to be forever defending him across this forum

 

[BeeKay]

Re traceability and general QC processes: Everything is possible. If we want standards applied that are common with critical products in medicine, defence or aerospace business we should belt and brace for the price tags to be seen.

 

[Hayabusa]

So no, its not a counter example. It goes specifically to the point. You don't just put a sticker of the S/N on the outside of the car and that solves it.

Indeed, I did not read it well

 

[im_gumby]

Well. There you go. Buckeye missed the issue which is likely to be missed and March Audio is claiming bonus points supposedly with reversed diodes and tweaking a pot to solve the problem and shitting on Buckeye.

Huh?
Lets try this again.

You want to QA every amp that goes out the door. Ok. So what tests do you perform?
Will you test every possible defect?

Anyone one who says yes... doesn't know what they are talking about.

And that's the point. You can't test every possible defect.
And the defect was in the Purifi card. Not the amp itself.
So what? You're now going to do a complete test on your supplier's cards for every amp?

Really?

And that's the point. You create a test plan that checks the most common types of failures.
If it passes, you pass the product.

And of course there's always the possibility that you have a defect you didn't detect or test.
It happens. Which is what Dylan said many pages ago.

Clearly Holmz has a chip on his shoulder if he's going to pass blame of a Purifi issue on to BA.