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Buckeye Purifi Eigentakt 1ET9040BA monoblock power amplifier Stereophile Measurements

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Cars sent out to reviewers are usually selected and tested thoroughly before doing so, so sorry but poor analogy, even for a car one. ;)
Not true of many car publications. For example, Edmonds and Consumer Reports buys them from dealers. A better analogy is expecting your local Chevy dealer to test every car on the lot on a dynamometer to ensure the engine produces the exact HP listed on the window. Doesn't happen anywhere.
 
Not true of many car publications. For example, Edmonds and Consumer Reports buys them from dealers. A better analogy is expecting your local Chevy dealer to test every car on the lot on a dynamometer to ensure the engine produces the exact HP listed on the window. Doesn't happen anywhere.
In this case the analogy would be that your car has 30+% less than the official spec power measured at a dyno, almost nobody would accept that, in my country when gone to court deviation of more then 10% was decided as a valid reason for returning the car.
 
In this case the analogy would be that your car has 30+% less than the official spec power measured at a dyno, almost nobody would accept that, in my country when gone to court deviation of more then 10% was decided as a valid reason for returning the car.
And nobody needs to accept that. That is not the issue. The issue is are we expecting the car manufacturer run every single car on a dyno before delivery?
 
Not true of many car publications. For example, Edmonds and Consumer Reports buys them from dealers. A better analogy is expecting your local Chevy dealer to test every car on the lot on a dynamometer to ensure the engine produces the exact HP listed on the window. Doesn't happen anywhere.
If you like analogies with cars, you also have the biggest scandal in the automotive industry, which cost the Volkswagen group several billion for misleading specifications on the pollutant emissions of their cars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
 
And nobody needs to accept that. That is not the issue. The issue is are we expecting the car manufacturer run every single car on a dyno before delivery?
It doesn't need to a be a dyno test but a good quality control that minimises such issues. For example for a decent amp I would personally expect at least a quick sine measurement in comparison to a golden sample with a tolerance band like it is performed on my many even medium price loudspeakers. Manufacturers who spend this extra minute do themselves actually also a favour, namely avoiding such issues which can harm the brand image and additionally having some documentation like its also recommended from internationally accepted quality management norms like the ISO 9001.
 
I attempted to follow your logic of testing everything which just doesn't happen in most manufacturing

You might find this interesting: I work for a company which since about a decade is rolling out novel sensor+analysis technology into a field which only had rudimentary sensors for testing and most of the time nothing was tested at all, resulting in quite some outage or suboptimal performance of end products. Today though our sensors are used both at the production stage and intermediate product builders to test millions of samples per year. And those aren't picked: it's every single sample which gets tested. Simply because overall it's a win-win situation on all fronts. Just to illustrate that it's not because it's uncommon this might not change. I'm an angineer, if you'd ask me to test an opamp or maybe even complete amplifier, unlike a car, I'd say: sure, practically, this can be done. Like in case of an opamp have a robot put the chip on a design using it and put a sweep through it, or something like that. Takes a couple of seconds max. And the longer a test would be allowed to take, the more information about its quality could be gained. I don't know anything about typical fault rates in opamps (or more complicated chips like the Purifi) to know whether this would be worth it overall though.
 
And nobody needs to accept that. That is not the issue. The issue is are we expecting the car manufacturer run every single car on a dyno before delivery?
Is that something people would be willing to pay for?
For example for a decent amp I would personally expect at least a quick sine measurement in comparison to a golden sample with a tolerance band like it is performed on my many even medium price loudspeakers. Manufacturers who spend this extra minute do themselves actually also a favour, namely avoiding such issues which can harm the brand image and additionally having some documentation like its also recommended from internationally accepted quality managements norms like the ISO 9001.
Agreed, but again every little bit of manufacturing cost in markets such as low end receivers and AVR's can effect their sales position in an extremely
competitive market.
 
Is that something people would be willing to pay for?
Isn't it very much a case of "I want it all, I want it now, and I want it cheap!" these days?
 
Different argument. IMHO, expectation and reality rarely meet. I find it hypocritical of many to place demands on small, direct to consumer manufacturers to conduct complex testing with expensive test equipment on every item. Much larger manufacturers aren't doing that but we demand Buckeye, who's been heralded by many on ASR and other forums, to do so? Why? Cause he takes the time to answer our questions and is accessible? I do find that as unreasonable. His design has been tested, he has a proven track record, he is working this issue far better than any other manufacturer I've seen on any forum. The item submitted might have been faulty, a new independent test is forthcoming, he has a warranty. But conjecture followed by demands is akin to Salem witch trials.
I wasn't specifically referring to Buckeye but speaking more generally. However, since many end manufacturers assemble amplifiers using modules from other manufacturers, the responsibility for ensuring accurate specifications often falls on the end manufacturer rather than the module producer. In such cases, relying solely on copying peak maximum power and distortion specifications from a module’s data sheet might not fully capture the nuances of implementation. The data sheets themselves note that the expected power output depends on thermal management. So, what is, for example, the actual expected power output of the mentioned amplifier? The answer depends on the specific implementation. Therefore, the power- and distortion ratings from the data sheet may not always be a straightforward reference.

When Purifi and Buckeye advertise their modules as "state-of-the-art," it sets a high expectation for the finished product, such as the assembled amplifier from Buckeye. When something is marketed as state-of-the-art, consumers naturally expect assurances of that claim -not just from Purifi, but also from the final assembled product. I understand that there may be no audible differences between this Purifi module and another amplifier with 40 or even 60 dB worse THD+N. However, this makes it even more crucial to ensure that the product performs as advertised. Since these performance metrics are primarily about measurements rather than audible differences, the assurance lies in the trust that the product truly meets its advertised specifications.

Finally, I want to commend Dylan for addressing the distortion issue with exceptional professionalism and excellent communication. His efforts here have been beyond what most companies typically provide, and we should appreciate that level of support. I also fully acknowledge and respect that conducting thorough quality testing on every unit is a significant challenge for a smaller company in a competitive market.
 
In this case the analogy would be that your car has 30+% less than the official spec power measured at a dyno, almost nobody would accept that, in my country when gone to court deviation of more then 10% was decided as a valid reason for returning the car.
More accurately, 30+% less than "spec" on a POSSIBLY FAULTY (cause we don't KNOW YET) car that WASN'T SOLD to anyone.
 
Clearly, it is all wiring's fault:
"I believe him and think it might be related to the CAT6 wiring that mediates my long DAC-to-amp connections"
Is this guy running analog signals from his DAC to his amp over Cat6, or is he claiming that the digital signal from his music server to his DAC is somehow corrupted by Cat6???
 
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Clearly, it is all wiring's fault:
"I believe him and think it might be related to the CAT6 wiring that mediates my long DAC-to-amp connections"
Is this guy running analog signals from his DAC to his amp over Cat6, or is he claiming that the digital signal from his music server to his DAC is somehow corrupted by Cat6???
This guy is running analog signals from his DAC to his amp over CAT6 per AES72. OTOH, I don't really believe the wiring is at fault but was just grasping at straws to possibly account for the very brief hum/noise at the beginning of play with the BuckEye amps and not with the M23 or the Benchmarks.
 
This guy is running analog signals from his DAC to his amp over CAT6 per AES72. OTOH, I don't really believe the wiring is at fault but was just grasping at straws to possibly account for the very brief hum/noise at the beginning of play with the BuckEye amps and not with the M23 or the Benchmarks.
So did you try moving the DAC and amp closer together and using a different interconnect to see if that eliminates this brief hum/noise?
 
So, what is, for example, the actual expected power output of the mentioned amplifier?
Based on what protocol? Testing done by me won't match testing done by module or manufacturer unless we all use the same equipment and same script. Even then you have to allow for some variation such as input voltage, room temp, variation in parts, etc. This is why if I measure 170 watt and manufacturer spec is 200, I don't make a big deal about it.

The only way you can be more or less sure is to compare data from same tester across multiple products which is what I produce.
 
Finally, I want to commend Dylan for addressing the distortion issue with exceptional professionalism and excellent communication. His efforts here have been beyond what most companies typically provide, and we should appreciate that level of support.
This doesn't go with the rest of your post. Listen, you are getting ultra low cost implementation of these amplifiers. You can't take that and then demand that they do this and that to perfection. That doesn't come for free. Are you willing to pay 50 to 100% more for the product? If so, I am sure Dylan can have amps that are fully tested by virgins in a tropical island.

I have tested a lot of product knowing full well that I have a protocol that goes above and beyond what he is able to do at the time. It is just the nature of the business that requires expensive equipment and processes that don't normally exist in companies this size. Heck, even geniuses like Bob Carver produce amplifiers that hugely miss their spec.
 
But it could have been. This escape was due to a lack of testing. How many other amps have been sold, that weren't tested don't fulfill spec? Maybe none. Maybe many.
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? The world may never know.

Your post triggered a childhood nostalgia moment. Thank you!
 
So did you try moving the DAC and amp closer together and using a different interconnect to see if that eliminates this brief hum/noise?
Not possible. OTOH, I ascribe it to premature unmuting of the HAPI DAC since it did not occur with the same wiring running from other DACs.
 
So, what is, for example, the actual expected power output of the mentioned amplifier? The answer depends on the specific implementation. Therefore, the power- [snip] from the data sheet may not always be a straightforward reference.

That seems reasonably outside of the Witch Hunt. Roll the information provided. You get efficiency for maximum supply and current. You get a maximum baseplate temperature of 100C. Of course Purifi should assist the OEM but they have nailed their flag to those numbers so you design your thermal management accordingly and come up with your own how long does it do it and test accordingly to verify.
 
This doesn't go with the rest of your post. Listen, you are getting ultra low cost implementation of these amplifiers. You can't take that and then demand that they do this and that to perfection. That doesn't come for free. Are you willing to pay 50 to 100% more for the product? If so, I am sure Dylan can have amps that are fully tested by virgins in a tropical island.

I have tested a lot of product knowing full well that I have a protocol that goes above and beyond what he is able to do at the time. It is just the nature of the business that requires expensive equipment and processes that don't normally exist in companies this size. Heck, even geniuses like Bob Carver produce amplifiers that hugely miss their spec.
If nothing else, this particular miss does give another of those elusive reasons why we might pay more for a product from a mainstream company, assuming QA of course.

Although that is no guarantee. We may pause at this point to remember the last Stereophile amp review controversy. Didn't D'Agostino actually ship one of their amps actually with measurement printouts clearly showing the deviations from a massive underbiasing of that amp - one that sells for tens of thousands of dollars more than this Buckeye?
 
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