Buckeye PURIFI 1ET9040BA Amp Review

[AkodoGilador]

We can't blanket and we don't have to go to $50k to find nice amps (although there are*)

Here's of the short that some people here think they're bad at about $9k :

View attachment 502603

McIntosh MC462 Stereo Amplifier Review

McIntosh MX100 A/V Processor Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Both power and measurements are more than ok (I would personally like some more power but that's only me been me )


*here's one (at last lab measurements but sadly limited by the measuring system! )

View attachment 502604
(link)

Except... that efficiency is horrific:

1W output for 147W input is 0.7% efficiency.

Alex

 

[DearSX]

Amir makes the excellent point that there is a category of audiophile -- many of them extremely well-heeled -- who "can't handle the truth" about their equipment. The just don't want to hear it.

They have a mythology of subject and personal evaluation of sound quality and an plutocratic conception of value. Most also a have an unspoken desire for the bragging rights and exclusivity of owning astronomically expensive stuff. Sadly discussions I've had with them over decades have boiled down to "you, (who can't afford it), just don't how good my high-end is".

That stuff is frustrating to me sometimes. Price does not equal performance, its common sense and logical. My 1987 BMW 325is at $34k (back then) is not as fast, safe or fuel efficient as a new Toyota GR86 at $31k. (just as fun though )

 

[DearSX]

Except... that efficiency is horrific:

View attachment 502625

1W output for 147W input is 0.7% efficiency.

Alex

My Parasound A21 uses 149 watts just at idle! If I leave it on by accident it costs me $1 in electricity a day just sitting there.

Its actually quite nice this time of year in a cold home Class A bias gives off a literal warmness to the sound!

 

[delta76]

We can't blanket and we don't have to go to $50k to find nice amps (although there are*)

Here's of the short that some people here think they're bad at about $9k :

View attachment 502603

McIntosh MC462 Stereo Amplifier Review

McIntosh MX100 A/V Processor Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Both power and measurements are more than ok (I would personally like some more power but that's only me been me )


*here's one (at last lab measurements but sadly limited by the measuring system! )

View attachment 502604
(link)

noone was saying that expensive amps are all bad. this is one of "expensive but actually worth it"

also 9k$ are like rookie numbers, you need to pump those up.

 

[DonH56]

DonH56. So, we know, hmm, maybe once again – measurements of ALL amplifiers over $50,000. Okay, cool...

No, I did not. As @delta76 said, my comment was that a number of amplifiers far more expensive than this one have worse performance in terms of noise (SNR), distortion, and power output. Whether it is audible is up to the listener, but my main point was that for the price this (Buckeye) amplifier offers amazing performance. As for personal experience, I have almost none with amplifiers over about $40k~$50k, and the main thing I have noticed is that noise tends to be an issue with high power amplifiers in general due to their design and gain structure. I have heard a pair of Boulder amplifiers but not their top of the line, and the session was short and in a store so I have no opinion. I have more experience with Bryston, Mcintosh, Krell and D'Agostino, Levinson, etc. A 1000 W amplifier rated 100 dB SNR at full power will have more noise than a 100 W amp with 100 dB SNR rating. The noise floor 100 dB below 1000 W is higher than the noise floor 100 dB below 100 W. Having high dynamic range afforded by high power all too often in my experience leads to noise (hiss) at low signal levels. I find that more noticeable (again, to me) than the difference between 0.1% and 0.001% distortion when music is playing. In other words, having enough power to reach reference levels in my system has often led to hiss during quiet passages. That may not be true for your system and listening levels.

I also like class D for it's lower radiated heat. Even class AB amplifiers can run very warm at modest average power levels. Not a concern for everybody, of course, and not usually a significant part of my buying decision, but a nice thing to have. At least in summer. I've also hit the age where I appreciate having to move a <10 pound amp vs. the 75 pound amps I currently own.

I find this amplifier an excellent value for its performance. You may not, and that's fine, I was just taken by both how well it performs and how quick folk were to find negatives that seemed to be nit-picking to me. All opinions, mine, yours, everyone's, have a place but the value seems awfully high to me -- if you need this sort of performance, of course. Many do not, and this would have less value to them, of course. This is not an amp I would use for my desktop or bedroom system, but please allow me to drool a bit at the thought of putting a pair in my main system.

 

[KL....]

No, I did not. As @delta76 said, my comment was that a number of amplifiers far more expensive than this one have worse performance in terms of noise (SNR), distortion, and power output. Whether it is audible is up to the listener, but my main point was that for the price this (Buckeye) amplifier offers amazing performance. As for personal experience, I have almost none with amplifiers over about $40k~$50k, and the main thing I have noticed is that noise tends to be an issue with high power amplifiers in general due to their design and gain structure. I have heard a pair of Boulder amplifiers but not their top of the line, and the session was short and in a store so I have no opinion. I have more experience with Bryston, Mcintosh, Krell and D'Agostino, Levinson, etc. A 1000 W amplifier rated 100 dB SNR at full power will have more noise than a 100 W amp with 100 dB SNR rating. The noise floor 100 dB below 1000 W is higher than the noise floor 100 dB below 100 W. Having high dynamic range afforded by high power all too often in my experience leads to noise (hiss) at low signal levels. I find that more noticeable (again, to me) than the difference between 0.1% and 0.001% distortion when music is playing. In other words, having enough power to reach reference levels in my system has often led to hiss during quiet passages. That may not be true for your system and listening levels.

I also like class D for it's lower radiated heat. Even class AB amplifiers can run very warm at modest average power levels. Not a concern for everybody, of course, and not usually a significant part of my buying decision, but a nice thing to have. At least in summer. I've also hit the age where I appreciate having to move a <10 pound amp vs. the 75 pound amps I currently own.

I find this amplifier an excellent value for its performance. You may not, and that's fine, I was just taken by both how well it performs and how quick folk were to find negatives that seemed to be nit-picking to me. All opinions, mine, yours, everyone's, have a place but the value seems awfully high to me -- if you need this sort of performance, of course. Many do not, and this would have less value to them, of course. This is not an amp I would use for my desktop or bedroom system, but please allow me to drool a bit at the thought of putting a pair in my main system.

Thank you, @DonH56, Yes, although would you say that is the case (in this case) even for low Gain?

 

[Mort]

If only I had full range passives with which to pair these.

 

[Sokel]

Except... that efficiency is horrific:

View attachment 502625

1W output for 147W input is 0.7% efficiency.

Alex

Don't talk about efficiency, mine is a sore thumb at low or no power (class D), search my last posts (very good at standby though, passes EU rule, Halcro does not)
Purifi's are usually kings there though, even at this 1W.

 

[Sokel]

also 9k$ are like rookie numbers, you need to pump those up.

The second one of the post are $60k, pumped enough
(way less street price though, as usual)

 

[DonH56]

Thank you, @DonH56, Yes, although would you say that is the case (in this case) even for low Gain?

The SNR is determined by the noise floor and maximum power output. The amount of gain in the amp will vary the noise floor and thus effective SNR, but looking at the graphs @amirm posted in the review it is so low that I doubt it will be audible at any gain setting, at least in my system. The results show around 110 dB SINAD at 5 W for low gain, a number many amplifiers only achieve referenced to full power. The noise floor is mostly below -140 dB, far below what I could hear in my system, no matter the gain setting. At full power, SNR is around 130 dB, which to me is pretty incredible. Achieving that requires not only excellent circuit design, but also care in layout and assembly of the complete amplifier to prevent leakage paths among internal components, modules, and wiring. For that matter, testing such a device is a significant challenge, so @amirm and @Buckeye Amps should both be complimented.

There are other amplifiers that approach this performance, but I do not know of any at this price. But I have not kept up with the latest products so cannot say, and in any event try to avoid ever speaking in absolutes (there's always an exception, somewhere).

A quick sampling from their websites (* Buckeye numbers from this review):

D'Agostino Relentless 1600: 1600 W, 113 dB SNR
Boulder 3050: 3000 W/4 ohms, 135 dB SNR (relative to 500 W/8 ohms)
Bryston 28B3: 1000 W, 117 dB SNR
Buckeye PURIFI 1ET9040BA: 750 W, 130 dB SNR*
Crown i-Tech 5000HD: 1250 W, >112 dB SNR
McIntosh MC1.25KW: 1200 W, 124 dB SNR

As mentioned earlier, Boulder has higher SNR and significantly more power, and McIntosh is close. I picked higher power amplifiers to give them the best shot at higher SNR specs. I'll leave it to others to find the prices for these amplifiers, and if there are other competitors. If there is a better value based on performance I would like to know. Clearly aesthetics differ greatly and is another factor in the perceived value, just not a significant factor to me.

 

[audioje]

Have absolutely no need for this as 50W is more than enough for my set up. But I have a feeling that I would get a pair of these soon and no longer think about an amplifier.

 

[dukeside]

Just got my 1ET6525SA today special shout out to Dylan for getting me that custom Michigan Blue.

 

[mdunjic]

Have absolutely no need for this as 50W is more than enough for my set up. But I have a feeling that I would get a pair of these soon and no longer think about an amplifier.

That's exactly where I am at the moment ... he he ... power amplification seems to be solved !

 

[Imakeller]

That's exactly where I am at the moment ... he he ... power amplification seems to be solved !

It sure does seem to be solved! I look back on all those amplifier reviews full of flowery descriptions that I used to read comparing the sound of one amp versus others, in contrast to what Amir does, and I shake my head. Amplifier excellence has transcended to scientific measurements and deciding what’s best is a “hair-splitting contest”. What more could we want from amplification than what have now with amps like this Buckeye? The only thing really left is for AoIP/Dante connections to hit mainstream consumer amps and AVPs.

 

[Imakeller]

No, I did not. As @delta76 said, my comment was that a number of amplifiers far more expensive than this one have worse performance in terms of noise (SNR), distortion, and power output. Whether it is audible is up to the listener, but my main point was that for the price this (Buckeye) amplifier offers amazing performance. As for personal experience, I have almost none with amplifiers over about $40k~$50k, and the main thing I have noticed is that noise tends to be an issue with high power amplifiers in general due to their design and gain structure. I have heard a pair of Boulder amplifiers but not their top of the line, and the session was short and in a store so I have no opinion. I have more experience with Bryston, Mcintosh, Krell and D'Agostino, Levinson, etc. A 1000 W amplifier rated 100 dB SNR at full power will have more noise than a 100 W amp with 100 dB SNR rating. The noise floor 100 dB below 1000 W is higher than the noise floor 100 dB below 100 W. Having high dynamic range afforded by high power all too often in my experience leads to noise (hiss) at low signal levels. I find that more noticeable (again, to me) than the difference between 0.1% and 0.001% distortion when music is playing. In other words, having enough power to reach reference levels in my system has often led to hiss during quiet passages. That may not be true for your system and listening levels.

I also like class D for it's lower radiated heat. Even class AB amplifiers can run very warm at modest average power levels. Not a concern for everybody, of course, and not usually a significant part of my buying decision, but a nice thing to have. At least in summer. I've also hit the age where I appreciate having to move a <10 pound amp vs. the 75 pound amps I currently own.

I find this amplifier an excellent value for its performance. You may not, and that's fine, I was just taken by both how well it performs and how quick folk were to find negatives that seemed to be nit-picking to me. All opinions, mine, yours, everyone's, have a place but the value seems awfully high to me -- if you need this sort of performance, of course. Many do not, and this would have less value to them, of course. This is not an amp I would use for my desktop or bedroom system, but please allow me to drool a bit at the thought of putting a pair in my main system.

I think I experience in real life what you are describing here. I use three of the Buckeye Purifi 1ET9040BA’s for my L/C/R and Pascal based D-Sonic amps for my other channels. The Buckeyes have a higher S/N and lower THD (although the D-Sonic’s specs aren’t “chopped liver” either), but the D-Sonics are much higher WPC (1,500-8-ohm & 2200-4-ohm) and slightly higher gain. The Buckeyes are dead silent at idle, but if I get close to the speakers with the D-Sonics, I can hear a faintly audible noise floor.

 

[DonH56]

I think I experience in real life what you are describing here. I use three of the Buckeye Purifi 1ET9040BA’s for my L/C/R and Pascal based D-Sonic amps for my other channels. The Buckeyes have a higher S/N and lower THD (although the D-Sonic’s specs aren’t “chopped liver” either), but the D-Sonics are much higher WPC (1,500-8-ohm & 2200-4-ohm) and slightly higher gain. The Buckeyes are dead silent at idle, but if I get close to the speakers with the D-Sonics, I can hear a faintly audible noise floor.

Exactly why I tend to look harder at SNR and the noise floor than distortion. High-power amplifiers are generally only producing a few watts during normal listening, so high SNR becomes a key requirement. Distortion is below audibility for a great many amplifiers these days. Noise when I have my ear at the speaker does not bother me, but audible hiss at the listening position during quiet musical passages I find annoying. Before buying a Buckeye amp for my overhead Atmos speakers, I tried a highly-regarded pro amp and hated it. The hiss was far too loud for me, whereas the Buckeye (a lower-powered 250 W/ch Hypex model) is dead quiet. And, unlike the 75-pound amps running my mains, I can pick up the Buckeye easily with one hand and without burning my palm. This amp is the evolution of that one and I look forward to having it in my system.

 

[amirm]

Here's of the short that some people here think they're bad at about $9k :

Without knowing the measurement bandwidth, you can't compare those results to mine. Notice how I state that mine uses 45 kHz bandwidth:

 

[DonH56]

As @amirm said, you have to look carefully at measurement bandwidth, if they even state it, and also weighting. My quick look at the MC462 specs shows good SNR but no bandwidth or weighting listed. I happen to have the spec sheet for the MC252, an older model I heard once upon a time, and it has this for SNR:

A weighting rolls off highs and lows and cannot be compared to a broadband SNR measurement. I really loathe it, especially since it rolls off high-frequency hiss and low-frequency power noise components, both of which can be annoying IME.

 

[Sokel]

Without knowing the measurement bandwidth, you can't compare those results to mine. Notice how I state that mine uses 45 kHz bandwidth:

I tried to see that but the Audio Precision test report is only available to Patrons, (which I'm not) .

 

[Sokel]

Without knowing the measurement bandwidth, you can't compare those results to mine. Notice how I state that mine uses 45 kHz bandwidth:

As @amirm said, you have to look carefully at measurement bandwidth, if they even state it, and also weighting. My quick look at the MC462 specs shows good SNR but no bandwidth or weighting listed. I happen to have the spec sheet for the MC252, an older model I heard once upon a time, and it has this for SNR:
View attachment 502742
A weighting rolls off highs and lows and cannot be compared to a broadband SNR measurement. I really loathe it, especially since it rolls off high-frequency hiss and low-frequency power noise components, both of which can be annoying IME.

View attachment 502743

I did a search around another amp tested there so to compare with other AP measurements and it seems that yes, used BW is narrower.
So I resorted to the known ones, SP, which shows this as the best outcome (4 Ohm load through 2 Ohm taps) :

McIntosh Laboratory MC462 power amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 4: Measurements I performed a full set of measurements on the McIntosh MC462, using my Audio Precision SYS2722 system (see the January 2008 "As We See It"). Before doing any testing, I preconditioned the MC462 by running its 8 ohm output at one-third power for 30 minutes into 8...

www.stereophile.com

Still nice about -107dB THD+N at 5W (it varies with taps and loads though, 4 Ohm load through its 8 Ohm taps produce a lot more clean power but worst THD+N)

All inaudible probably at such depths, as usual.