• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Buckeye Nc502mp Review (6 Channel Amplifer)

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,894
Likes
16,710
Location
Monument, CO
One has to wonder if the particular combination of amp and speakers is resulting in some sort of resonance with the amp's output filter, and/or perhaps modulating the switching noise in the tweeter or whatever down to the audio band.

Vexing.

Kudo's to @Buckeye Amps for all the help in troubleshooting, module replacement, and ultimately amplifier swap to keep a happy customer! And to @Hcg76 for helping work through the issue without throwing the manufacturer under the bus. Both seemingly rare attributes these days.
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,732
Likes
5,303
One has to wonder if the particular combination of amp and speakers is resulting in some sort of resonance with the amp's output filter, and/or perhaps modulating the switching noise in the tweeter or whatever down to the audio band.

Good to know I am not the only one mentioning the "resonance" scenario. If it was me I would try to prove it by doing a quick experiment, that is to just de-tune it. Not a fix, just to trouble shoot.
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,894
Likes
16,710
Location
Monument, CO
Good to know I am not the only one mentioning the "resonance" scenario. If it was me I would try to prove it by doing a quick experiment, that is to just de-tune it. Not a fix, just to trouble shoot.
Yah, I guess it was the other thread a few days ago that I suggested sticking a 1-ohm resistor in series at the amplifier outputs to de-Q the circuit. But realistically how many audiophiles have a box of resistors lying around? Would be an interesting experiment. Hopefully Hypex will dig into this.
 

rdenney

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 30, 2020
Messages
2,270
Likes
3,973
What would resonate? I’m curious but a bit out of my depth.

In my simple ham radio mind, oscillation happens at the tuning point of an RLC network, with the resistor providing the damping by lowering the sharpness of the resonance (Q). The speaker provides the R and (possibly) the C, and the amp/wiring provides the inductance, one supposes. Adding resistance as Don suggests would reduce the Q and presumably damp the oscillation to some extent. (And also reduce overall gain, so the comparison would need care, it seems to me.)

Putting ferrites on the speaker wire should add inductance and choke RF frequencies, it seems to me. But if this is an oscillation in the audible band, wouldn’t the speaker wire need to be coiled through the ferrite to create higher inductance and lower the frequency? Of course, that would change the frequency response. Plus, the ferrites are probably clip-on beads designed to choke common-mode RF from a shield, and not big enough to loop wire through them.

But reading back, the ferrites did affect the phenomenon, and that reinforces that even that simple choke inductor at least influenced the problem, which in turn does point the fickle finger of fate to oscillation.

Does the person have the ability to extract the audio from the video so that it can be more easily posted? Or record a new sample using, say, audacity in a computer?Looking at waveforms would be interesting.

A usually reliable poster on another forum reported that his 502 lost something when driving speakers that presented a capacitive load up high (no data obtained or reported, of course). I wonder if that could be related.

Rick “sensing a learning opportunity” Denney
 
Last edited:

Hcg76

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Messages
37
Likes
23
78D376E5-C339-4655-A4CF-68CE7A8BC643.jpeg

His speakers are probably wonky. When in doubt, buy new!
I’d highly doubt them being wonky. I have hooked up my surround speakers, JTR Noesis 110HTs to my Cherry 5 channel amp and my Buckeye amp with nc252mp modules. They have absolutely no weird sounds coming out of them except beautiful sound. Stumped on the 502 amp though as it seems I’ve tried everything… I’ve been trying to upload a video for anyone who wants to hear the noise but apparently the website won’t allow uploading videos?
 

Attachments

  • 8FF3DAFB-0C89-4B3B-81C2-0DDE156A108C.jpeg
    8FF3DAFB-0C89-4B3B-81C2-0DDE156A108C.jpeg
    162.4 KB · Views: 106
  • EB2E26F8-30FE-4A1C-BA3D-3C76354CF4DA.jpeg
    EB2E26F8-30FE-4A1C-BA3D-3C76354CF4DA.jpeg
    181 KB · Views: 121

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,197
Likes
16,921
Location
Central Fl

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,894
Likes
16,710
Location
Monument, CO

MakeMineVinyl

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
3,558
Likes
5,875
Location
Santa Fe, NM
Just get some 24 GA speaker wires and the 1 ohm will take care of itself. ;)
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,894
Likes
16,710
Location
Monument, CO

MakeMineVinyl

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
3,558
Likes
5,875
Location
Santa Fe, NM

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,894
Likes
16,710
Location
Monument, CO
And wire wound 1 ohm resistors are inductance free? :confused:
I didn't look at Sal's link. I would use non-inductive resistors, of course. He may not have 24 AWG wire around, either. My whole point, apparently not clear enough, was that I would not expect the customer to be technically savvy and have parts around to do a bunch of debugging for me.

@rdenny: Your Ham understanding is valid for this, yes. The speaker is in general a complex RLCG load, with the crossover and drivers adding a significant amount of inductance and capacitance plus some resistance. The wires probably contribute little, as evidenced by changing them without fixing the issue. A class D amplifier includes a large LC circuit at the output to reduce the switching noise that reaches the speakers. For that matter, many amps use an output filter to help reject RF. The question is if the combination of amplifier output impedance, amplifier feedback, and speaker (plus wires) impedance happens to create a resonance peak at a frequency the overall circuit is sensitive to. It may not be actually oscillating, just injecting a large noise peak that the net system cannot handle well.

Gotta' get back to work, enough of this for now - Don
 
Last edited:

MakeMineVinyl

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
3,558
Likes
5,875
Location
Santa Fe, NM
I didn't look at Sal's link. I would use non-inductive resistors, of course. He may not have 24 AWG wire around, either. My whole point, apparently not clear enough, was that I would not expect the customer to be technically savvy and have parts around to do a bunch of debugging for me.

@rdenny: Your Ham understanding is valid for this, yes. The speaker is in general a complex RLCG load, with the crossover and drivers adding a significant amount of inductance and capacitance plus some resistance. The wires probably contribute little, as evidenced by changing them without fixing the issue. A class D amplifier includes a large LC circuit at the output to reduce the switching noise that reaches the speakers. For that matter, many amps use an output filter to help reject RF. The question is if the combination of amplifier output impedance, amplifier feedback, and speaker (plus wires) impedance happens to create a resonance peak at a frequency the overall circuit is sensitive to. It may not be actually oscillating, just injecting a large noise peak that the net system cannot handle well.

Gotta' get back to work, enough of this for now - Don
;)
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,197
Likes
16,921
Location
Central Fl
My whole point, apparently not clear enough, was that I would not expect the customer to be technically savvy and have parts around to do a bunch of debugging for me.
True, my point of posting was more in hope someone would come by looking for answers and find guidance here.
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,732
Likes
5,303
In my opinion, just to find out if it was related to "resonance", adding inductance can be a good idea anyway because the goal here is not to fix the issue but to de-tune the existing circuit to eliminate the noise that might have been resulted from whatever resonance there is.
 

Spkrdctr

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
2,223
Likes
2,945
Do you have some thing a ma jigs also known as doodads on your speaker wires? Tyr straight regular cheap speaker wire and see if it makes a difference. I don't trust anything on a speaker wire that should not be there. Unless those are your ferrite modules? I have never added ferrite to any wire before so don't know what they look like. I could be TOTALLY wrong in my assumption.
 

Jdunk54nl

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 5, 2020
Messages
969
Likes
1,049
Location
Arizona
Do you have some thing a ma jigs also known as doodads on your speaker wires? Tyr straight regular cheap speaker wire and see if it makes a difference. I don't trust anything on a speaker wire that should not be there. Unless those are your ferrite modules? I have never added ferrite to any wire before so don't know what they look like. I could be TOTALLY wrong in my assumption.
Those are the ferrite cores:
 

Hcg76

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Messages
37
Likes
23
Do you have some thing a ma jigs also known as doodads on your speaker wires? Tyr straight regular cheap speaker wire and see if it makes a difference. I don't trust anything on a speaker wire that should not be there. Unless those are your ferrite modules? I have never added ferrite to any wire before so don't know what they look like. I could be TOTALLY wrong in my assumption.
Jdunk54nl’s right, those are ferrite cores I connected to two different speaker cables, one from Monoprice and the other Mogami.

The resulting noise from speakers was the same regardless of whichever speaker cable I use.
 

Peafowl

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2021
Messages
20
Likes
22
Location
Germany
I know something similar happened to someone with the 502 but not yours. Regardless, I think you can ask Hypex tech support about this as I do believe the design of the 502MP (probably has to do with the specific switching frequency of that model) likely make it prone to interference (even harmonic resonance..) between the amp's output filter and the speaker's crossover network. If I am right, the fix could be quite simple, and Hypex should know how obviously. I think it would be extremely rare for such interaction to result in some weird noise with only certain speakers. Did you hear back from him if the ferrite cores fix it?
Hi, i hope it´s okay if i step on to this conversation.
í´me not cure if it is exactly the same problem, but this happened to me with my NC502 Amp made by another brand.

I testes the Amp on the system i bought it for. T+A TMR 230 works great, also on Newtronics Temperance III no issue.
Both pair of speaker totally silent.

But when i hooked up the AMP to a pair of Canton DC 91 and switched the 230V power on this happened.
At the end i switched the power off , otherwise it would make a load pop and start again.

Hope this link is conform and allowed in this Forum?
https://soundcloud.com/liro-cp%2Famp-sound-connect%2Fs-MNRmf2MdZAN
 
Last edited:

beefkabob

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
1,658
Likes
2,114
I am Debating on getting either:

Buckeyes Hypex NC502MP Amplifier, 4-channel

Or

VTV PASCAL L-PRO2S Four Channel Amplifier 4X800W

I can afford the $250 price difference.

Is there a reason to get one over the other ??
This would be to just power my LCR speakers in my HT.

LR Speakers: Emotiva B1+
Center: Emotiva C2+
AVR: Integra DRX 3.4

VTV makes questionable changes.
 
Top Bottom