Buckeye NC252MP Stereo Amplifier Review

[jools]

And it should be called the Hotblack DesiAMPo

 

[RickS]

Okay but you also wrote this-->

If you have followed his success, you would know continued badgering is not going to change Dylan’s position on the case.

Am sure he will improve the case aesthetic eventually but has other priorities currently.

Happy holidays!

 

[Multicore]

Given the bland look the amp is critisized for by some, he comments that it doesn't matter as his sales has gone up.

I comment that he couldn't possibly know how it would've been, had it had a different design.

Well, yes, retrospective counterfactuals are indeed not knowable.

 

[tmtomh]

I'm not assuming you need more sales. I just don't think you're right in assuming "it doesn't matter" when it comes to design. Obvious by your own statement that you could've sold more with a nicer case it actually does matter.

You could cater to a broader group by offering a nicer case. But you don't because your are happy with your sales. And that's okay. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter what the case looks like.

As your own comment on the McIntosh casing indicates, a "nicer" or "higher design" case is extremely subjective. You are assuming that the only likely lost opportunity cost here is that @Buckeye Amps has lost potential sales or profits by not offering additional case designs, or perhaps by not replacing his baseline case offering with a "nicer" one and marking it up a bit more relative to his cost.

But there's another potential opportunity cost, which is the possibility of lost sales because of a combination of (a) higher prices necessitated by a fancier case, and (b) limitations in Dylan's production/sales/distribution capability. Remember, there are tiers of new fixed and ongoing costs one incurs during expansion of one's business, and they don't scale linearly.

So if Dylan were to invest serious money in expanding his capacity so as to offer higher-priced, fancier casing, he might recoup that investment and then some in the form of more revenue and profit. But he also might lose out because prospective buyers might start to compare Buckeye's offerings to those of other, higher-priced brands and decide that the other brands' cases are more to their liking, or the other brands are slightly less expensive because they have larger economies of scale, or the other brands are still a little more expensive but because Dylan's prices have risen, Buckeye is no longer sufficiently less expensive to compel them to buy from Dylan.

The point is that there are possibilities on all sides of this hypothetical equation, and none of us knows with any real confidence what would have happened. But among you, me, and Dylan, Dylan is the only one who has additional knowledge that can increase his confidence level relative to yours and mine, and reduce the scope of the unknowables compared to what you and I don't know.

Finally, I have a more general comment, which is that it never ceases to strike me how lots of folks (and I'm not saying this necessarily includes you, Holdt) seem to act as though plain=ugly or "utilitarian." I think there are ungainly and sleek looking plain cases, just as there are ugly and cool looking fancy cases. Material, color, texture, corner/edge seams, and above all height to width proportion are major design characteristics. Silver and VU meters don't have the franchise on "design."

 

[Multicore]

We don't decorate the home with appliances. The AV gear isn't the main feature. In fact, I prefer the gear that makes the effort to minimize it's presence at the party. I think the Buckeye Amp does that job real swell. I know some people like decorative AV gear, and that's cool. I, otoh, would rather brag about the ceramics in this picture and how four of those shown were made by my wife.

 

[Power Pop 23]

I’d say it was one out of every 80 customers.

thank you

I believe the late Sheila Weisfeld of VPI Industries once said 'the first rule of business is to stay in business'

I am risk averse and like your business model of offering a performant enclosure that is affordable to your customers.

 

[Head_Unit]

But WHERE is the all Vanta black amp with a black power button and a little black light that lights up black on a black background to let you know it's on??? That's what I want.

Let me guess, you must have bought Glenn Danzig's all-black-interior house, and want to match the décor?

 

[Descartes]

I am not familiar with calculating heat dissipation. It appears from the interior dimensions at the link below that select models of Buckeye Amps could fit in a McIntosh Labs LB200 'Light Box'

McIntosh LB200

LED-backlit light box for McIntosh audio systems

www.crutchfield.com

Absurde price $1,500!!!

Now I really like the design of the NAD and Nord Acoustic cases not their prices!

 

[Multicore]

Absurde price $1,500!!!

For a moment there I was thinking this is like the lightweight empty Marshall 4x12 pseudo-cabs used for various decoration purposes (backline on stage, youtube...). But wait, why would Marshall charge enormous prices to dealers or sponsored acts to promote the brand?

Yeah, I don't get it either. Who buys that and why?

 

[Deleted member 48726]

As your own comment on the McIntosh casing indicates, a "nicer" or "higher design" case is extremely subjective. You are assuming that the only likely lost opportunity cost here is that @Buckeye Amps has lost potential sales or profits by not offering additional cases designs, or perhaps by not replacing his baseline case offering with a "nicer" one and marking it up a bit more relative to his cost.

But there's another potential opportunity cost, which is the possibility of lost sales because of a combination of (a) higher prices necessitated by a fancier case, and (b) limitations in Dylan's production/sales/distribution capability. Remember, there are tiers of new fixed and ongoing costs one incurs during expansion of one's business, and they don't scale linearly.

So if Dylan were to invest serious money in expanding his capacity so as to offer higher-priced, fancier casing, he might recoup that investment and then some in the form of more revenue and profit. But he also might lose out because prospective buyers might start to compare Buckeye's offerings to those of other, higher-priced brands and decide that the other brands' cases are more to their liking, or the other brands are slightly less expensive because they have larger economies of scale, or the other brands are still a little more expensive but because Dylan's prices have risen, Buckeye is no longer sufficiently less expensive to compel them to buy from Dylan.

The point is that there are possibilities on all sides of this hypothetical equation, and none of us knows with any real confidence what would have happened. But among you, me, and Dylan, Dylan is the only one who has additional knowledge that can increase his confidence level relative to yours and mine, and reduce the scope of the unknowables compared to what you and I don't know.

Much of what you write may be true. But yet again, it IS unknown and opposing the fact that aesthetics matter is a weird flex. Even from someone selling the stuff.

That was my only point.

And I have nothing against cheap amplification and nothing against Buckeye Amps and nothing against "utilitarian" looking amps. I think many pro amps look just as nice than the residential ones.

 

[restorer-john]

Given the bland look the amp is critisized for by some, he comments that it doesn't matter as his sales has gone up.

I comment that he couldn't possibly know how it would've been, had it had a different design.

He's inhabiting a niche, and clearly doing quite OK in that niche. Why would he mess with it?

His offerings are utilitarian, some might say ugly, others are perfectly fine with the relatively plain black box as long as the guts perform.

There's plenty of Hypex/Purifi assemblers trying to make their casework look 'audiophile' or mainstream and, in my opinion, not even one of them looks remotely in the same league as any of the big boys. They simply don't have the economies of scale, manufacturing or the decades of industrial design behind them.

So, much as I also don't care for the look, fit or finish of Buckeye's amplifiers- I'm not his market. That's fine- I'm not trying to get him to waste money trying to look like a low budget Accuphase or a Yamaha.

 

[Joe Smith]

I like the look/minimalist style of the Buckeye amps. I do miss a front panel power button, though.

 

[RickS]

I like the look/minimalist style of the Buckeye amps. I do miss a front panel power button, though.

Depending on which Buckeye Amp you own, should be able to add a switch relatively easily. Let me know via PM and can walk you through the mod or do for very modest charge. One advantage to his utilitarian cases is that they are easier to modify.

 

[Rottmannash]

Given the bland look the amp is critisized for by some, he comments that it doesn't matter as his sales has gone up.

I comment that he couldn't possibly know how it would've been, had it had a different design.

True but as he's said many times the cost to have those fancy cases manufactured would have eliminated most, if not all the savings he passes on to us customers therefore it would be a net negative for Dylan and those of use who would buy his plain-jane cases by the truckload.

 

[Multicore]

Much of what you write may be true. But yet again, it IS unknown and opposing the fact that aesthetics matter is a weird flex. Even from someone selling the stuff.

Weird? Idk.

When Amir first showed us what Ncore could do I decided I want some of that. So I looked for a suitable package. There were a few Eurobrands I never heard of before that were too expensive and clearly had audiophile pretensions (one of them boasted about which op-amps their input buffer used, which is just confusing to me because I thought in a proper feedback design the op amp's open circuit characteristics were neutralized). I considered buying the DIY HiFi kit and decided against that too since my assembly skills aren't great and I've a bit of Ballistic Bob in me. There was a vendor down under that did nice work but that's even farther away (since seems to have phased out Hypex).

So I got a stupid-looking Music Fidelity M3i integrated with a volume knob 100x larger than the input selector buttons and 1000x larger than their text labels. I really gotta get on my hands and knees with a magnifier? Yes, I do. Btw, and I actually called the guy at the shop to mock this, when I opened that amp's carton, the first thing I find is sterile white gloves. That's just takin the micky.

Eventually the MiniDSP Flex came along and Dylan had just introduced his Mark 2 with supervisor processor. It was clear: that's my guy. That's what I want to replace the embarrassing M3i. You saw my pictures above of the result and her and I agree that it represents an upgrade because 1) listening is more comfortable with the room modes corrected, 2) it looks way less HiFi and 3) the remote control is better. (Not to mention now we've got enough beans with our efficient speakers to activate civil defense. Having headroom is comforting.)

So, no, I don't think it's weird. I think audiophile industrial design aesthetics is typically repellent but, thank providence and thank Buckeye Amps, it is not always repellent.

Fwiw, I set out my Pragmatic Antiaudiophile manifesto here.

That was my only point.

You went on to challenge Dylan, in what amounted to a product marketing meeting you invited yourself to, that he doesn't know his market.

And then you scolded him for implying that he knew a retrospective counterfactual that we all know nobody can know. A straw-man that served only to score a rhetorical point.

 

[antcollinet]

Much of what you write may be true. But yet again, it IS unknown and opposing the fact that aesthetics matter is a weird flex. Even from someone selling the stuff.

I think you are missing his point.

The aesthetics don't matter to him. He is selling as much and making as much money as he wants/needs to with the aesthetics as they are.


And your repeated posts telling him he should care are beginning to sound (to me) like badgering.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

You're right, I cannot know the answer to the broad question of "What would my sales/success/customer base look like had I purchased my cases from overseas like many others."

I'll rephrase then: I do know that my decision to use Protocase and make tweaks over the years, purposely sticking with a NA manufacturer, has not hindered our business from successfully growing and expanding well beyond the expectations I had even at this time last year (let alone three years ago when I first started).

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I think you are missing his point.

The aesthetics don't matter to him. He is selling as much and making as much money as he wants/needs to with the aesthetics as they are.

I got Dylans point when he wrote exactly that. And I wrote that I think it's fine to acknowledge that he is happy with how the sales are or have been.

But that doesn't mean he could know how the sales would be if the aesthetics were, let's say, more akin to Apollo or Audiophonics. And that the aesthetics actually matter a lot for most people outside of this niche corner of a corner of a corner that is ASR.

That's the only thing I have written. And the backlash for this has been nothing but bandwagon drama. And honestly, a comment like the one from @Multicore is just unreasonable trendy bashing, "scolding". Pfft. Get out of here.. I have done nothing of the like. I also think he would defend himself more if he felt the need to. With english as my second language I wouldn't survive long anyway and this was just a simple question.

If @Buckeye Amps thinks my questions to him were unreasonable or with evil intent I will happily remove them. I assure you they were not.
If all you want to see is angry people on the internet I guess a lot of comments would be upsetting..

 

[antcollinet]

But that doesn't mean he could know how the sales would be if the aesthetics were, let's say, more akin to Apollo or Audiophonics.

You keep repeating that as though @Buckeye Amps has denied it.

I keep looking at it every time you do, blink, and think "Well yes, obviously. But so what?"

 

[Power Pop 23]

@GXAlan,

Is it practical to create a space on ASR where members can discuss the aesthetics of a product ? This thread has become less helpful as more posts accumulate discussing aesthetics.