Buckeye NC252MP Stereo Amplifier Review

[Deleted member 48726]

When you look at it, it is quite fascinating (in fact very distressing) how a single person can turn a review thread out of rails into a complete mess !
I guess that's the price to pay for "free speech" internet...
That's clearly showing that exposing technical stuff to people not understanding it without doing their homeworks is causing sometimes more trouble than expected.
And I don't really get all of these debates about casing used by @Buckeye Amps.
This has nothing to do about science .
Come on, tastes and colours is a personal matter and out of the question here.
Let's focus of the measurements

It's not messy. I guess you haven't read it all.

He, Chris, complaining about specs. don't reflect the measurements. And because of a bad experience he had before because of this he was persistent about it and he is actually not wrong for wanting better specifications.
People are continuing to bash him even though he got a thread ban with no ability to respond. Don't do this.

Oh and it was yet another thread ban without warning from the mods. That's odd given that I read that you get warning points.

 

[restorer-john]

Yeah. I don't get the pushback for people wanting transparent specifications and amplifiers capable of supplying full power 20-20.000 Hz.

Any 'pushback' is unwarranted and plain wrong. 1kHz is just a reference frequency for setting/testing levels/THD etc. It's not 'the' frequency for testing or specifying power output.

Hypex should be specifying 20Hz-20kHz continuous average power at a THD figure which is not exceeded anywhere across that bandwidth.

 

[DS23MAN]

Maybe reading the Hypex specsheet will help for some people. They state 180 W at 2 ohms at 1 kHz and say it is current limited.

The graphs are very clear at this:

You can see this also in the BTL setup at 4 ohm:

There are 2 protection systems, one over current in the amp stage and also over current in the SMPS. So this normal behaviour.

 

[antcollinet]

Yeah. I don't get the pushback for people wanting transparent specifications and amplifiers capable of supplying full power 20-20.000 Hz. Is that really a bad. I guess so if some say it is.

My pushback - such as it is - is not against transparency, I'm all for that. It is against an accusation of deceit.

It is not deceitful to rate the power of an amp using the industry standard (and in fact CEA/ANSI standard) 1kHz test, and the same test @amirm uses. Especially when you then submit** your amp to ASR to further improve the transparency of the performance, and then to participate in the subsequent discussion.

**Admittedly in this case not submitted by @Buckeye Amps directly, but they have shipped other amps using similar or the same modules in the past.

The accuser has still not retracted the accusation, let alone apologised for it.

(and before you point out "he can't, he's thread banned" he had plenty of opportunity to do so before the ban.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

My pushback - such as it is - is not against transparency, I'm all for that. It is against an accusation of deceit.

It is not deceitful to rate the power of an amp using the industry standard (and in fact CEA/ANSI standard) 1kHz test, and the same test @amirm uses. Especially when you then submit** your amp to ASR to further improve the transparency of the performance, and then to participate in the subsequent discussion.

**Admittedly in this case not submitted by @Buckeye Amps directly, but they have shipped other amps using similar or the same modules in the past.

The accuser has still not retracted the accusation, let alone apologised for it.

I agree with you on the deceit accusations. That wasn't ok.

 

[Sokel]

Maybe reading the Hypex specsheet will help for some people. They state 180 W at 2 ohms at 1 kHz and say it is current limited.

The graphs are very clear at this:

View attachment 315808
You can see this also in the BTL setup at 4 ohm:

View attachment 315809
There are 2 protection systems, one over current in the amp stage and also over current in the SMPS. So this normal behaviour.

No graph is clear or useful without stating the measurement conditions,bandwidth,thermals,used filters,etc.
At least at this page of the spreadsheet and some back and forth are nowhere to be found:




That's why third-party measurements with stated conditions like Amir's for example are far-far more useful and reliable.
(and it's not that Hypex's are wrong,they are just blur as is)

 

[daniboun]

my feeling is that at this price... ie. 450 euros to $575 usd... what is there better in class d or class a/b?

120w@8 and 200w@4 ohms is as good as you can get for this kind of money

is there better? i'd like to see it - maybe emotiva? i doubt it though

Hi,
There are better alternatives. I own the NC252MP, the NC500MP, the Purifi, the LA90, the PA5 and other great amps.
I already shared the link and measurements here , you can expect a very good 105.8dB sinad 5watts into 4ohms., checkout :

3E Audio 260-2-29A : TPA3255 / HA3588 CoilCraft / PFFB Fully differential.

Hi amigos, I imagine some of you have had the opportunity to test the latest 3E Audio TPA3255 module with PFFB + HA3588 Coilcraft inductors I refer to version 260-2-29A dated July 2022 ) Designed with Fully differential signal chain from input to output. This module seems to be close behind...

www.audiosciencereview.com

For $300 it is one of the best performance / price ratio ! and easy to assemble.

 

[DS23MAN]

No graph is clear or useful without stating the measurement conditions,bandwidth,thermals,used filters,etc.
At least at this page of the spreadsheet and some back and forth are nowhere to be found:


View attachment 315850

That's why third-party measurements with stated conditions like Amir's for example are far-far more useful and reliable.
(and it's not that Hypex's are wrong,they are just blur as is)

Ok, Hypex states 180 W at 2 ohm at 1 kHz and tell that is current limited. They even provide a measurement at 3 different frequencies where you can see very clear to show this. Problem is that many people can't read graphs....

 

[antcollinet]

Hi,
There are better alternatives. I own the NC252MP, the NC500MP, the Purifi, the LA90, the PA5 and other great amps.
I already shared the link and measurements here , you can expect a very good 105.8dB sinad 5watts into 4ohms., checkout :

3E Audio 260-2-29A : TPA3255 / HA3588 CoilCraft / PFFB Fully differential.

Hi amigos, I imagine some of you have had the opportunity to test the latest 3E Audio TPA3255 module with PFFB + HA3588 Coilcraft inductors I refer to version 260-2-29A dated July 2022 ) Designed with Fully differential signal chain from input to output. This module seems to be close behind...

www.audiosciencereview.com

For $300 it is one of the best performance / price ratio ! and easy to assemble.

It's not an amp though, it's a module. And easy to assemble is relative. You can do it. I could do it. Many here could not.

 

[daniboun]

It's not an amp though, it's a module. And easy to assemble is relative. You can do it. I could do it. Many here could not.

Sure but many could ) try to see the bright side of the moon ))))

 

[Sokel]

Problem is that many people can't read graphs....

That's unfortunate.
Cause if they did they would know how much it matters to state your conditions.
In the following measurement (it's the same one just letting MTA recalculate the values,for better consistency) I only changed bandwidth at one and disabled the AES17 notch filter at the other following one:



20-20Khz bandwidth



20-45Khz bandwidth



AES17 notch filter off.

And all that at 1Khz,a sweep wouldn't be so gracious.

As an example of right practice is this:




Not as detailed as it could be but at least gives a good idea.

 

[DS23MAN]

That's unfortunate.
Cause if they did they would know how much it matters to state your conditions.
In the following measurement (it's the same one just letting MTA recalculate the values,for better consistency) I only changed bandwidth at one and disabled the AES17 notch filter at the other following one:

View attachment 315881

20-20Khz bandwidth

View attachment 315882

20-45Khz bandwidth

View attachment 315883

AES17 notch filter off.

And all that at 1Khz,a sweep wouldn't be so gracious.

As an example of right practice is this:


View attachment 315884 View attachment 315885

Not as detailed as it could be but at least gives a good idea.

You can't either, you can clearly see the current limiter kicking in at the 2 ohm and 4 ohm BTL graphs in the Hypex datasheet.

If you want real continues power at 2 ohm, buy something like this:

file:///C:/Users/wlz/Downloads/Delta-Omega-2000-Brochure-DO2000_Broc-2.pdf

Owned a pair of these, 40 kg basterds.

 

[Sokel]

You can't either, you can clearly see the current limiter kicking in at the 2 ohm and 4 ohm BTL graphs in the Hypex datasheet.

If you want real continues power at 2 ohm, buy something like this:

file:///C:/Users/wlz/Downloads/Delta-Omega-2000-Brochure-DO2000_Broc-2.pdf

Owned a pair of these, 40 kg basterds.

View attachment 315887

Who said anything about power,limits,etc?
I only pointed out the orphan unspecified graphs in general as a practice even from companies like Hypex.

And you're right,maybe I'm missing something I can't read,can you post a graph of your own as I did to show me?

 

[DS23MAN]

Who said anything about power,limits,etc?
I only pointed out the orphan unspecified graphs in general as a practice even from companies like Hypex.

And you're right,maybe I'm missing something I can't read,can you post a graph of your own as I did to show me?

I don't need a graph of my one, it is already in the datasheet:

At the marked part you can seen the protection kicking in. Completely inline with Amir's measurements.

 

[Sokel]

I don't need a graph of my one, it is already in the datasheet:

View attachment 315901
At the marked part you can seen the protection kicking in. Completely inline with Amir's measurements.

Again,you're talking about a single number while I talk about the measurement protocol as a principle.

If you go at Amir's measurements you will see the conditions clearly stated.Being inline with Hupex's ones means that they probably use the same conditions,but we can only guess without stating them clearly as they should.

Again²,it's not the numbers,it's the principle,as I measure myself stuff and as being a newbie I was (rightfully) corrected by our most experienced folks here about it.
State,state,state,orphan measurements is as good as nothing.

 

[peng]

Maybe reading the Hypex specsheet will help for some people. They state 180 W at 2 ohms at 1 kHz and say it is current limited.

The graphs are very clear at this:

View attachment 315808
You can see this also in the BTL setup at 4 ohm:

View attachment 315809
There are 2 protection systems, one over current in the amp stage and also over current in the SMPS. So this normal behaviour.

I posted those info including the Hypex foot notes pages ago, but it won't help much because people don't read all the posts and some may not understand the information posted A few pages later it will be forgotten again, and same points will be made, same responses will be given too; and it will get repeated over and over, hence 18 pages already, still ongoing..

 

[peng]

Again,you're talking about a single number while I talk about the measurement protocol as a principle.

If you go at Amir's measurements you will see the conditions clearly stated.Being inline with Hupex's ones means that they probably use the same conditions,but we can only guess without stating them clearly as they should.

Again²,it's not the numbers,it's the principle,as I measure myself stuff and as being a newbie I was (rightfully) corrected by our most experienced folks here about it.
State,state,state,orphan measurements is as good as nothing.

I am all for manufacturers (such as Hypex) and reviewers (such as Amir) to specify their tests/measurements conditions as clearly and understandable as possible. On the manufacturers side, It looks like Icepower did a better job, at least based on the examples you posted, irrc, McIntosh's not too bad either, Hypex's is still better than most other manufacturers though.

On the reviewers side, Amirs are top so far, Gene's came close or even a little better at times, depending on the specific review/measurements he did. Others not too good, but I don't count Stereophile as they tend to measure many things I am not interested in. Maybe you should do more of your own, but I understand it is difficult to get people to send in devices for test even if you are willing to do it. So, our best hope is for the manufacturers themselves to take the initiative to improve on their specifications and publish their own tests and measurements.

 

[antcollinet]

try to see the bright side of the moon

It't the only one we can see (at leat from planet earth)

 

[Rick Sykora]

my feeling is that at this price... ie. 450 euros to $575 usd... what is there better in class d or class a/b?

120w@8 and 200w@4 ohms is as good as you can get for this kind of money

is there better? i'd like to see it - maybe emotiva? i doubt it though

In my experience as I have tested many of the Class D modules, once you find an amp that is in the top measurement tier (as this one is), the best alternative is the one that gets you the price, features and/or support you desire.

Have also found that price can vary regionally and support considerations are also more worthy considerations than a marginally different level of performance. A total cost of ownership approach is also more important than acquisition price in my experience. If I need to make a warranty claim and pay for overseas shipping, one warranty claim can readily wipe out any initial savings. Also, a vendor who readily responds to fix their product may be more important unless you are willing to tolerate downtime. As vendor’s go, Buckeye has demonstrated his customer support commitment under adverse conditions.

With any audio product that offers different capabilities, if someone claims “this is a better alternative”, they better have asked what my needs are first. The better answer for one person can often be different than what is better for another.

 

[restorer-john]

Could this be continued on another thread?

Why?