Buckeye NC252MP Stereo Amplifier Review

[sigbergaudio]

I understand that you as manufacturer doesn't like statements like mine. But they are just fact. The manufacturers reading here should know how the tests are done - no surprise. So it's easy for them, to be prepared (if they want to).
Are you trying to manipulate Amir to colorize results or even to disarm his tests? They should be even tightened to better identify the black sheep (generally speaking).

Amir's existing tests show impressively how things can go wrong if a manufacturer doesn't tell the (full) truth and tries to hide behind "one point data sets" - hoping the customer interpolates them to the complete frequency range.

No - I'm not forced and thanks to Amir revealing those "gaps".

I'm not trying to manipulate anyone. There are no black sheep here, that's the problem. You're screaming wolf where there is none.

 

[chris256]

In Germany, we say "Getroffene Hunde bellen" - unfortunately there is no suitable translation (which I know of).

 

[Deleted member 48726]

This is an amp where (due to the module it is based on) we already have a good understanding of the performance unless something very strange has been done during implementation. It is okay to be curious, but to default to criticism is in my opinion not. You need to understand the consequence of review threads derailing like this.

The thread is read by hundreds and maybe thousands of people who do not have the competence or knowledge to understand what is going on. They see a measurement they don't really understand, and then 10 pages of critical voices. And then they go elsewhere to buy their amp, while they could have had a perfectly good amp with this one.

I get what you mean but I think you are wrong or at least don't see the point nonetheless.

In this case we have a chart, which is the first thing people see, that shows 0 W and "protection" at 2 ohm loads. So the following discussion (I won't call it derailing as that is a negative word used for irrelevant discussion) actually reveals why that is.

What Amir should do in the wake of these kinds of "investigations" is add a disclaimer and an explanation to that exact graph so there can be no misunderstandings by those thousands of people reading the review. Don't criticize those that questioned it. Otherwise the erroneous interpretations might still be there for people to see..

 

[sigbergaudio]

In Germany, we say "Getroffene Hunde bellen" - unfortunately there is no suitable translation (which I know of).

Not sure if I understand it, but if it means I'm defensive because you and others hit the mark, I would argue it's the opposite. I'm obviously not 100% objective since our loudspeakers use Hypex as well. But the reason I'm reacting isn't that. The reason is that I think it's simply unfair when an inherently good product gets this much heat. One would assume the point of these reviews and ASR in general is to help separate good products from poor. These types of discussions do not contribute to that.

Here's the spec sheet for the module in this amplifier. If you look at the information available here, I think you will find that there are not a lot of amplifiers out there with more detailed specifications provided by the manufacturer. https://vtvamplifier.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/NC252MP_02xx.pdf

You will also not find a lot of amplifiers out there with better performance. Of the top 10 amps ever measured here at ASR, four of them are from Hypex. The manufacturer you would "never ever buy from". So again, it's fine to be curious, and even critical, but here it feels misjudged at best.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I get what you mean but I think you are wrong or at least don't see the point nonetheless.

In this case we have a chart, which is the first thing people see, that shows 0 W and "protection" at 2 ohm loads. So the following discussion (I won't call it derailing as that is a negative word used for irrelevant discussion) actually reveals why that is.

What Amir should do in the wake of these kinds of "investigations" is add a disclaimer and an explanation to that exact graph so there can be no misunderstandings by those thousands of people reading the review. Don't criticize those that questioned it. Otherwise the erroneous interpretations might still be there for people to see..

I tried to make my point here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...mp-stereo-amplifier-review.48196/post-1730886

I realize this is what happens in almost every review thread, so I'm not sure why I'm arguing. Carry on.

 

[daniboun]

Here's the spec sheet for the module in this amplifier. If you look at the information available here, I think you will find that there are not a lot of amplifiers out there with more detailed specifications provided by the manufacturer. https://vtvamplifier.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/NC252MP_02xx.pdf

You will also not find a lot of amplifiers out there with better performance. Of the top 10 amps ever measured here at ASR, four of them are from Hypex. The manufacturer you would "never ever buy from". So again, it's fine to be curious, and even critical, but here it feels misjudged at best.

I think you are pointing to the wrong link. Up to date specs are here : https://www.hypex.nl/media/47/17/ef/1646058029/NC252MP_04xx.pdf
Regarding the best amps tested, I like to recall this list:

Amplifier SINAD list ASR + 3rd parties

docs.google.com

You have to consider the performance/price ratio, that's what we're ultimately looking for.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I think you are pointing to the wrong link. Up to date specs are here : https://www.hypex.nl/media/47/17/ef/1646058029/NC252MP_04xx.pdf
Regarding the best amps tested, I like to recall this list:

Amplifier SINAD list ASR + 3rd parties

docs.google.com

You have to consider the performance/price ratio, that's what we're ultimately looking for.

I referred to the amp list from the first page on this thread, my apologies if that is wrong.

The list you are referring to have the same amp in different modes listed on the first 6 places, so that's a bit hard to find a ranking from.

 

[Matias]

The list you are referring to have the same amp in different modes listed on the first 6 places, so that's a bit hard to find a ranking from.

Actually it is 2 amps listed in various gains and bridge modes. Tough call to choose between simplicity versus details.

 

[Sokel]

Actually it is 2 amps listed in various gains and bridge modes. Tough call to choose between simplicity versus details.

Sometimes I think that the best parameter to list them is their actual task: Gain and Power for a given voltage input.
Cause a lot of tricks can be played with them.
Problem is that some amps doesn't even have the ability for more than 25db gain (not the case here,NC252MP can have 26db gain buffered),so we're left with whatever is there.

 

[AudioKC]

Intermodulation distortion is very low:

waited for that test almost two years)

happy owner from 2021

I wanted to upgrade to ncx500, but now I see the only reason to upgrade I have its power into 8oms, otherwise there is no reason to upgrade

such a great amp.

 

[AudioKC]

About ugliness or prettiness…

do you see it behind Kefs? Lol

 

[chris256]

Of the top 10 amps ever measured here at ASR, four of them are from Hypex. The manufacturer you would "never ever buy from".

I wrote, I would never buy this concrete amplifier Amir tested here and I justified it. I never talked about Hypex. I'm neither interested in Hypex nor in Purifi or anything else. Only the purchased result counts at the end of the day.

Yes, this amp here in question uses Hypex modules. What does this say? Nothing. Because the modules have to be implemented by the integrator. This can be done well - or just not.

Some time ago, I was so stupid and based on the specs of the Purifi modules (I have the original data sheet from 2019) concluded the quality of the T+A A200 and fell flat on my face. T+A's implementation of the Purifi modules is horrible (I saw the tests of some Hifi journals later unfortunately). What does this say about the quality of the Purifi modules: nothing. Exactly the same here with Hypex and Buckeye.
I wouldn't buy the A200 for sure never again and I don't recommend it at all (pity that Amir has not yet tested it - and I fear he never will test it because T+A for sure won't send him any device). Would I buy any T+A device ever? Definitely no. They did the same as Buckeye here: providing misleading specs. This is a nogo for me.

 

[Rottmannash]

I wrote, I would never buy this concrete amplifier Amir tested here and I justified it. I never talked about Hypex. I'm neither interested in Hypex nor in Purifi or anything else. Only the purchased result counts at the end of the day.

Yes, this amp here in question uses Hypex modules. What does this say? Nothing. Because the modules have to be implemented by the integrator. This can be done well - or just not.

Some time ago, I was so stupid and based on the specs of the Purifi modules (I have the original data sheet from 2019) concluded the quality of the T+A A200 and fell flat on my face. T+A's implementation of the Purifi modules is horrible (I saw the tests of some Hifi journals later unfortunately). What does this say about the quality of the Purifi modules: nothing. Exactly the same here with Hypex and Buckeye.
I wouldn't buy the A200 for sure never again and I don't recommend it at all (pity that Amir has not yet tested it - and I fear he never will test it because T+A for sure won't send him any device). Would I buy any T+A device ever? Definitely no. They did the same as Buckeye here: providing misleading specs. This is a nogo for me.

Pretty sure my 252 from Buckeye is of the older version but not sure but certain it is only the module and power supply, as Dylan hadn't created his buffer board at that time so there's not much he could do to butcher the performance. It isn't like he's in there switching wires around... I would surmise you could order a case, a power supply and this module from Hypex and your amp would measure exactly as this one does.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Yea I don't know what Chris is on about. The 2ohm PowerCube result was clarified. And the correct 20Hz power graph was added.
I believe he may be upset I am using the quoted 1kHz peak power from Hypex?

 

[AudioKC]

Audiophonics NC252MP so we can compare, seems to be last revision of the module....(June 2023)

View attachment 315132

Another reason to run active crossovers on main with subs, like Dirac live bass control, to use power wisely, why to push mains that cannot play 20hz to suck power at 20hz.

In my case, Kefs R11 crossed at 70hz, with this amp can go very loud in the room, yes, I listened at full power twice for curiosity, but usually I’m listening in -10 to -22db loudness from full power.

I think it’s a good amp for even a big speakers, in a specific use-case.

 

[peng]

Yea I don't know what Chris is on about. The 2ohm PowerCube result was clarified. And the correct 20Hz power graph was added.
I believe he may be upset I am using the quoted 1kHz peak power from Hypex?

In your next website update, you could do it like Hypex did, add a foot note for the 180 W thing. That should keep some people happier.

 

[antcollinet]

No, they should be honest and provide the information based on the complete frequency range. If they can deliver minimal 122 W (probably even less at 16 Hz) they should exactly write this. 250 W @ 4 ohms @1kHz doesn't tell anything as it doesn't have any relevance in real life - or are you always listening to just a 1 kHz tone? It is and remains misleading. I would never buy such a device. Never!

They are specifying power using the standard measurement, and it matches the test done by @amirm . This is in no way misleading. There is even a standard for it

If you don't like it that is fine. But then you should be asking all the other manufacturers to provide power by frequency so you can compare like with like. (All will have varying power at different frequencies).

Or are you also going to go after speaker manufacturers for their power handling specifications? Those 100W speakers - try sending 100W at 20kHz and see how many milliseconds it takes for the tweeter coil to burn out.

And you really really need to apologise for your false accusation of deceit. Buckeye have correctly specified power the same way every other manufacturer does.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

In your next website update, you could do it like Hypex did, add a foot note for the 180 W thing. That should keep some people happier.

I am having a huge 'renovation' done on the website (no ETA on updating to the new site). One thing I am hoping to accomplish is to have a better layout where I can have more in-depth specs without just having a wall of text on one page.

 

[chris256]

Yea I don't know what Chris is on about. The 2ohm PowerCube result was clarified.

I never told anything about 2 ohms.

There is even a standard for it

The standard is obviously misleading (or better: it can be used misleading).

Buckeye have correctly specified power the same way every other manufacturer does.

Buckeye is just an example for misleading specs. I didn't say every other manufacturer would be better.

Take a look here: No power loss at 20 Hz @ 4 ohms. This means: it is technically possible to have it the same as @ 1kHz. Oh, I forgot to mention, it's Purifi. Buckeye: 122 W @ 4 ohms @ 20 Hz instead of 250 W @ 4 ohms @ 1 kHz.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Take a look here: No power loss at 20 Hz @ 4 ohms. This means: it is technically possible to have it the same as @ 1kHz. Oh, I forgot to mention, it's Purifi. Buckeye: 122 W @ 4 ohms @ 20 Hz instead of 250 W @ 4 ohms @ 1 kHz.

So your issue is the use of 1kHz for peak power rating, not 20Hz?

Also weird to use Purifi specs as a comparison to the NCxxxMP with just a small little tid bit mid sentence clarifying such distinction.