Buckeye Amps: New US based Hypex multichannel amplifier builder, line-up announcement!

[Buckeye Amps]

Hi Dylan. I've been recommending your amps to prospective customers @ ASR. How are your amps situated per competitive pricing. I have been told that there are 2 channel units available like a Crown XLS series for less money with DSP. I did a quick comparison and found your amp has a bit more power but no DSP. How are your amps situated in the overall marketplace pricing? What is the advantage of a Buckeye amp over a Crown?

Regarding Crown, Amir's review kind of hits the point:

Review and Measurements of Crown XLS 1502 Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS 1502 "PA" Power Amplifier. It is on a kind loan from a member who bought it new and drop shipped it to me. It retails for USD $349 including free Prime shipping from Amazon. At that price, it seems like an incredible value. I have...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It's not that Crown amps are bad, but for hi-res/in-home usage, the noise/distortion can be more of an issue vs. a Hypex or Purifi amp solution.

The only subjective input I can give, having used Crown amps in a dedicated large theater room nearly ten years ago (so well before I even knew about Hypex or did my first DIY build) is the clarity/resolution of the audio was hindered slightly over different amps I had tried both before and after the Crowns in the same setup/room.

As far as value of my Class D amps vs. comparable amps (other Hypex and Purifi): I believe most of my amps are either priced the same/lower as the next closest competitors + the new features being rolled out, especially with the Purifi, are features few brands implement fully in one amp design.

 

[Doodski]

Regarding Crown, Amir's review kind of hits the point:

Review and Measurements of Crown XLS 1502 Amp

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Crown XLS 1502 "PA" Power Amplifier. It is on a kind loan from a member who bought it new and drop shipped it to me. It retails for USD $349 including free Prime shipping from Amazon. At that price, it seems like an incredible value. I have...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It's not that Crown amps are bad, but for hi-res/in-home usage, the noise/distortion can be more of an issue vs. a Hypex or Purifi amp solution.

The only subjective input I can give, having used Crown amps in a dedicated large theater room nearly ten years ago (so well before I even knew about Hypex or did my first DIY build) is the clarity/resolution of the audio was hindered slightly over different amps I had tried both before and after the Crowns in the same setup/room.

As far as value of my Class D amps vs. comparable amps (other Hypex and Purifi): I believe most of my amps are either priced the same/lower as the next closest competitors + the new features being rolled out, especially with the Purifi, are features few brands implement fully in one amp design.

When are you going to list the new soft start feature and the new input buffer (Is that the new PCB that you have?) if that's what is coming on your webpage? I checked 2 days ago and did not see anything.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

When are you going to list the new soft start feature and the new input buffer (Is that the new PCB that you have?) if that's what is coming on your webpage? I checked 2 days ago and did not see anything.

All of the product descriptions should have a small paragraph about the new board/features already.

I also finally bought a nice little "photo booth" so once I start building each variation of my amps I am going to take very nice, high quality photos finally. And add a section on the new boards for both the Hypex and Purifi on the site (kind of like a "Our Technology" section)

 

[Doodski]

All of the product descriptions should have a small paragraph about the new board/features already.

I see that now @ each individual amp webpage. I thought they are options. All included is great. Thanks for the heads up.

I also finally bought a nice little "photo booth" so once I start building each variation of my amps I am going to take very nice, high quality photos finally. And add a section on the new boards for both the Hypex and Purifi on the site (kind of like a "Our Technology" section)

Good pics will be great.

 

[yllanos]

I'm getting a new stereo amp and Buckeye (Hypex) has been at the top of my list for a while. However, I'm getting a little disappointed that I would have to wait at least until the end of August to receive the product. It's just too much for my taste. So I'm considering the VTV route as well. Not sure what the differences are between builds.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Care to give technical details as to what the issue was and how it was fixed?

That is up to Dylan.

Although, I have a general understanding of the modification, am not the designer. So I cannot provide specifics.

 

[ryanosaur]

Hi Dylan. I've been recommending your amps to prospective customers @ ASR. How are your amps situated per competitive pricing. I have been told that there are 2 channel units available like a Crown XLS series for less money with DSP. I did a quick comparison and found your amp has a bit more power but no DSP. How are your amps situated in the overall marketplace pricing? What is the advantage of a Buckeye amp over a Crown?

I would only really recommend the Crown XLS Amps for Subwoofer duty. They perform well enough to handle most needs and the DSP is pretty useful. Arguably, the Amp is better than the Behringers but the Beri DSP is seemingly more useful.
I agree that powering mains with these is probably not the best use case for any person looking to follow best practices.

 

[Jmudrick]

I have two Crown XLS amps and one Buckeye. I have not done scientific blind testing but have read the numbers. I got the Crowns for power and DSP/High pass filtering and Buckeye for the main system where I don't need it. That's what I'd recommend.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

I'm getting a new stereo amp and Buckeye (Hypex) has been at the top of my list for a while. However, I'm getting a little disappointed that I would have to wait at least until the end of August to receive the product. It's just too much for my taste. So I'm considering the VTV route as well. Not sure what the differences are between builds.

The long ETA is currently the major hurdle for my company and I am fully aware. Half of the drive to get these new boards developed and in use is to drastically cut down on wait times, especially for 2ch and 4ch amps.

In terms of differences: if the NCxxxMP amps are wired correctly internally (including correct Pin 1 grounding), their performance and audible quality are practically identical between different brands.
Speaking of Buckeye Amps specifically though, the use of a soft start sequence, clipping LED, error LED, and Auto Sense are features not found on the VTV amps.

 

[lordvader]

Hey all -
Forgive me if this has been asked before - but I'm currently torn between a 252 or a 502 based amp.
My speakers will only take up to 300W (6ohm load - as low as 4.6, 88db at 2.83V), so my query is more about the performance of these two amps within that range.

Basically - even though I only need the 250W amp power wise, will the 500W amp offer better performance around that level?

 

[Rick Sykora]

Although this may seem a bit self-serving , kudos to Dylan for understanding the value of external testing these new designs. Furthermore, once the issue was uncovered, having the integrity to invest the extra time and effort to fix. The impact of the monitoring circuit was small and likely inaudible, but he chose to have it corrected anyway.

Hopefully will get the updated amps over the weekend and will retest as soon as I can.

For all the fathers out there, have a great Father’s Day!

Best wishes,

Rick

A quick update on my testing. Due to USPS and a federal holiday on Monday, the current ETA for the amps to arrive is late Tuesday.

Once I have them, should have results within a day.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

That is up to Dylan.

Although, I have a general understanding of the modification, am not the designer. So I cannot provide specifics.

My guess is noise backwash from the microcontroller into the audio.

 

[rdenney]

Hey all -
Forgive me if this has been asked before - but I'm currently torn between a 252 or a 502 based amp.
My speakers will only take up to 300W (6ohm load - as low as 4.6, 88db at 2.83V), so my query is more about the performance of these two amps within that range.

Basically - even though I only need the 250W amp power wise, will the 500W amp offer better performance around that level?

If 250W never clips, then 500 is more than you need. But "never clips" is a difficult thing to know for sure.

Speaker specifications for power are usually unhelpful. Unless a speaker bottoms out or the current burns up the voice coil wiring or crossover components, it's not too much power.

I'm using an NC502MP to drive Revel F12 towers, which are also 6 ohm with 90-dB SPL nominal sensitivity. On highly dynamic recordings of percussion (the Chesky demonstration CD has one such), I can make the clip indicators flash, with no apparent damage to the speakers or audible distortion. Yes, it's loud, but not quite as loud as I expected. The clipping indicators seem to be rather conservative, but I have not yet really determined just how conservative with any precision. In any case, I don't worry about occasional flashing, and I'm glad I got the 502 instead of the 252.

That said, I can only play it that loud when my wife is shopping in the next county. And every time I describe it, I get the usual warnings from those concerned about my hearing. Those peaks will be in the 110+ dBA SPL range or more at my listening position.

Rick "turn that $(&*&(@! thing down!" Denney

 

[DonH56]

Hey all -
Forgive me if this has been asked before - but I'm currently torn between a 252 or a 502 based amp.
My speakers will only take up to 300W (6ohm load - as low as 4.6, 88db at 2.83V), so my query is more about the performance of these two amps within that range.

Basically - even though I only need the 250W amp power wise, will the 500W amp offer better performance around that level?

Generally higher power for roughly the same input level means more gain and thus noise at lower power and perhaps lower distortion (though probably irrelevant, buried in the noise).

You might want to flip the question around and try to determine how much power you need at your listening position and preferred volume. You could use an online SPL calculator like http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html to estimate your power needs. Ten feet from a pair of 88 dB/W/m (more or less) speakers 250 W will deliver about 105 dB, which may be plenty loud enough. At 6 feet you'd get about 110 dB.

A 500 W amp is 3 dB more power than 250 W, not a large change in volume, and that is for the loudest peaks. You'll have to decide what is best for your needs.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

My guess is noise backwash from the microcontroller into the audio.

In a nutshell, the auto sense was clipping, which was causing it to pull down the signal of the channel connected to it (channel 2), so distortion would rise earlier on that channel vs channel 1.

As Rick alluded to, audibly it was not an issue. The rise in distortion didn't happen until after 200w and only when using an unbalanced source. But due diligence said to address the issue if possible. And it seems to be a very easy fix, sans final test by Rick next week.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

In a nutshell, the auto sense was clipping, which was causing it to pull down the signal of the channel connected to it (channel 2), so distortion would rise earlier on that channel vs channel 1.

As Rick alluded to, audibly it was not an issue. The rise in distortion didn't happen until after 200w and only when using an unbalanced source. But due diligence said to address the issue if possible. And it seems to be a very easy fix, sans final test by Rick next week.

Is the audio connected directly into an A/D channel of the microcontroller?

(I'm genuinely trying to help. I've been at this Rodeo before. )

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Is the audio connected directly into an A/D channel of the microcontroller?

(I'm genuinely trying to help. I've been at this Rodeo before. )

This I would not know off the top of my head. I know the fix was to add a simple voltage divider into the auto sense circuit.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

This I would not know off the top of my head. I know the fix was to add a simple voltage divider into the auto sense circuit.

If you're feeding in A/D converter and that is clipping, I can see backwash loading down the audio line and causing distortion. A simple voltage divider will lower the voltage below clipping but you want to be able to sense about 10mV of incoming audio as the 'audio present' threshold in order for the circuit to be sensitive enough to not clip off low level signals like soft dialog in a film or a soft introduction to a piece of music.

That's how I've heard its done.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

If you're feeding in A/D converter and that is clipping, I can see backwash loading down the audio line and causing distortion. A simple voltage divider will lower the voltage below clipping but you want to be able to sense about 10mV of incoming audio as the 'audio present' threshold in order for the circuit to be sensitive enough to not clip off low level signals like soft dialog in a film or a soft introduction to a piece of music.

That's how I've heard its done.

Testing with the divider in place still shows the auto sense works at low levels.
It's also not instantaneous (about a 10min power remaining on time frame once signal falls below threshold).

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Testing with the divider in place still shows the auto sense works at low levels.
It's also not instantaneous (about a 10min power remaining on time frame once signal falls below threshold).

The dwell of 10 minutes after signal drops below the sensing threshold is fine. The thing that should be paid attention to is that it takes about 10mV on the input of the amp in order to wake it out of standby. To avoid clipping the beginning of the audio, the threshold for 'low levels' should be around 10mV, and not significantly above this voltage.