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Buchardt I150 integrated Amp/DAC

Head_Unit

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Does this amp run as red hot as my buddy’s A500s? Even idling those are literally too hot to touch, 165F IIRC, which Bucharest calls “normal” bit which as an electrical engineer and product planner I call “bad design” from a technical amd marketing point of view. He likes his speakers but worries about their longevity.
 

richard12511

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If you are spending this amount of money on speakers and amplifier you would never use a preout for subwoofer, but high level input anyway. For example rel subwoofers.

I'm of the opposite opinion. If I'm spending big money, I don't want to be limited by high level sub out. REL subwoofers are some of the worst on the market(objectively) for the price, so not really a good example imo.
 

RMW_NJ

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Does this amp run as red hot as my buddy’s A500s? Even idling those are literally too hot to touch, 165F IIRC, which Bucharest calls “normal” bit which as an electrical engineer and product planner I call “bad design” from a technical amd marketing point of view. He likes his speakers but worries about their longevity.

No the I150 runs cool.
 

richard12511

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The question was about this new amp of Buchardt missing a subwoofer out. Apart from that this would overcomplicate the design and Buchardts speakers are full range, I don’t see why a low level output would be a beneficial to high level. I used other subs low level in the past and always had timing issues with music. After going to Rel and using high level connections, the difference with using the LFE on the same receiver was night and day.

REL only does that because they know a lot of audiophiles mistakenly believe the myth that high level connections are better for music. The truth is such connections are significantly worse for music and everything else. Bass management is all but a requirement to get good bass. If I'm spending big money like this, why would I not want good sounding bass?
 

richard12511

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Rel's inherently have lower output.

They also have much worse distortion, group delay isn't any better, and neither is frequency response. They sell well based on solid marketing. Marketing combined with expectation bias can work wonders for what people hear under sighted conditions. They'd do terrible for music or movies against legitimately well performing subs for the price.
 

richard12511

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"Coming soon" info just posted on Buchardt Audio's Instagram.

View attachment 75243

I was gonna say, it seemed like an odd choice for a company like Buchardt Audio. They make objectively great speakers and understand well audio science. Glad to see they included it.

While it's true that some of their speakers really are full range(A700), many of their other speakers would benefit from from external subs and proper bass management, so it makes good sense for them to include it.

While the price is high, I don't see it as too high. If they integrate well and can bring the benefits of their active monitors to the passive domain, that's somewhat of a unique selling point.
 

Head_Unit

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I don’t see why a low level output would be a beneficial to high level.
Because unless your mains are big enough that you don't really need a sub, they can't play at the highest levels without distortion and Doppler effect. Highpass filtering if sufficient should lower that distortion, especially if the mains are those small bookshelf speakers ported at 70 Hz or whatever. My cynical belief is REL recommends high level because it is simpler = less complaints and support calls. Because the flip side is integrating a sub with bass management can be tricky and time consuming, hence the popularity of Dirac and Audyssey etc I guess.

As for Buchardt, I presume Mads' idea is the speakers can go low enough, and with his room correction flat enough, that to paraphrase you this is an all-in-one solution and not really for folks who want huge SPL at low frequencies.
 
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VintageFlanker

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As for Buchardt, I presume Mads' idea is the speakers can go low enough, and with his room correction flat enough, that to paraphrase you this is an all-in-one solution and not really for folks who want huge SPL at low frequencies.
Sure. Still, they should think about release some "60/70Hz" cut off MasterTuning for those who want a real 3-way design and the opportunity to cross with a sub (and getting rid of the low end distortion, BTW)
 

Chromatischism

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As for Buchardt, I presume Mads' idea is the speakers can go low enough, and with his room correction flat enough, that to paraphrase you this is an all-in-one solution and not really for folks who want huge SPL at low frequencies.
That is definitely correct. I have seen him say before that the S400 was designed for the small rooms of many Danish homes, but that applies in a lot of countries. And being that these are 2.0 speakers first, most people aren't going to ask more than 95 dB from them. I have used them with bass boosted flat to 30 Hz (plus room gain) and without subs, and they are a seriously capable pair that would save someone floor space if skipping a sub. Some people want simple. Max SPL is not affected much if using a loudness or Dynamic EQ feature since it tapers off the boost the higher you go.
Sure. Still, they should think about release some "60/70Hz" cut off MasterTuning for those who want a real 3-way design and the opportunity to cross with a sub (and getting rid of the low end distortion, BTW)
I do this with an AVR (supplemented with Audiophonics NC252MP with 12v trigger for auto-on) and would recommend that approach as more versatile.

The I150 seems more for 2.0 or 2.1 purists who don't plan to have an AVR for whatever reason.
 

Head_Unit

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REL only does that because they know a lot of audiophiles mistakenly believe the myth that high level connections are better for music. The truth is such connections are significantly worse for music and everything else. Bass management is all but a requirement to get good bass. If I'm spending big money like this, why would I not want good sounding bass?
Oooh, REL, I mistakenly lambasted Rhytmik somewhere, oops. No I don't blame REL actually-it is simpler and quite possibly more randomly successful to connect a sub high level and just rotate the crossover knob until it works, than trying to add a highpass crossover into the mix. The dumb part is that unless your satellites are very bass capable in the first place, then they are still distorting trying to put out the lowest notes.
 

bloodshoteyed

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could one of the owners give me an honest opinion on Buchardt's own room correction? is it worth it or would a better option be another nc252 amp + minidsp's dirac?
 

Head_Unit

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could one of the owners give me an honest opinion on Buchardt's own room correction? is it worth it or would a better option be another nc252 amp + minidsp's dirac?
Well in my friend's application it filled in a humongous 50-130 Hz hole, and he is pleased. I have not heard the setup due to COVID. I would simply NEVER buy an active Buchardt due to the numerous problems he's had, and the super hot rear panel temps. ATI 525NC on the other hand runs cool as a cucumber, even with the volume up quite a bit. We don't even put the previous Denon AVR-X3600H's AC Infinity fan on the ATI. I would opine as an acoustic engineer that Buchardt's correction is unlikely to be superior to Dirac. That doesn't mean inferior, just that it's hard to imagine that smaller scale effort hitting on some superior convoluting magic with all the other things he's working on.
 

RMW_NJ

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could one of the owners give me an honest opinion on Buchardt's own room correction? is it worth it or would a better option be another nc252 amp + minidsp's dirac?

I have the I150 and I think it really depends on what type of person you are. I would imagine the Buchardt room correction will get you 80% or so of what Dirac or meticulous manual EQ would. But the I150 only takes 60 seconds and is extremely easy to use. I’ll also mention the I150 has not had any of the issues Buchardt’s active speakers have had, runs cool, and the app, while somewhat sparse, works well.

I did not do before and after measurements but it’s fairly instant to turn EQ on and off through the app…and there is a pretty noticeable difference on vs. off. I’ll also mention the before measurements in the Buchardt app were very close to in room measurements I had taken with REW a year or so ago. For a reasonable comparison, there are reviews of the A500 that show response before/after room correction…most notably here: https://thenextweb.com/news/buchard...s-feels-like-the-future-of-hi-fi-speakers/amp

Finally, the app also makes sub integration easier than it would be otherwise. I think Buchardt has a pretty good return policy, so I don’t think you’re losing a lot if you try and then don’t like it and want to send it back.
 

Freeway

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I have the I150 and I think it really depends on what type of person you are. I would imagine the Buchardt room correction will get you 80% or so of what Dirac or meticulous manual EQ would. But the I150 only takes 60 seconds and is extremely easy to use. I’ll also mention the I150 has not had any of the issues Buchardt’s active speakers have had, runs cool, and the app, while somewhat sparse, works well.

I did not do before and after measurements but it’s fairly instant to turn EQ on and off through the app…and there is a pretty noticeable difference on vs. off. I’ll also mention the before measurements in the Buchardt app were very close to in room measurements I had taken with REW a year or so ago. For a reasonable comparison, there are reviews of the A500 that show response before/after room correction…most notably here: https://thenextweb.com/news/buchard...s-feels-like-the-future-of-hi-fi-speakers/amp

Finally, the app also makes sub integration easier than it would be otherwise. I think Buchardt has a pretty good return policy, so I don’t think you’re losing a lot if you try and then don’t like it and want to send it back.

There is a new app out and just released firmware for amp/app.
 

bloodshoteyed

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I have the I150 and I think it really depends on what type of person you are. I would imagine the Buchardt room correction will get you 80% or so of what Dirac or meticulous manual EQ would. But the I150 only takes 60 seconds and is extremely easy to use. I’ll also mention the I150 has not had any of the issues Buchardt’s active speakers have had, runs cool, and the app, while somewhat sparse, works well.

I did not do before and after measurements but it’s fairly instant to turn EQ on and off through the app…and there is a pretty noticeable difference on vs. off. I’ll also mention the before measurements in the Buchardt app were very close to in room measurements I had taken with REW a year or so ago. For a reasonable comparison, there are reviews of the A500 that show response before/after room correction…most notably here: https://thenextweb.com/news/buchard...s-feels-like-the-future-of-hi-fi-speakers/amp

Finally, the app also makes sub integration easier than it would be otherwise. I think Buchardt has a pretty good return policy, so I don’t think you’re losing a lot if you try and then don’t like it and want to send it back.

well, ty, that's the kind of info i was looking for
i do know of their return policy, i'm just not that kind of person that would bother getting something just to send it right back

btw, is the app/mic requirement still an iphone exclusive?
 

RMW_NJ

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well, ty, that's the kind of info i was looking for
i do know of their return policy, i'm just not that kind of person that would bother getting something just to send it right back

btw, is the app/mic requirement still an iphone exclusive?
Yes, though they are working on compatibility with android. I forgot to mention there’s also manual EQ functionality if you want to make changes beyond the auto EQ.
 

Matias

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Several subjective reviews popping out these days, I wonder if someone could drop ship one to Amir for review. This integrated is very promising and not talked about much here.
 

don'ttrustauthority

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You live in a different world or universe than most of us I guess.... The point I am trying to make is that this product is not for you. If you want subs and seperate bass management there are alternatives enough.
...
Appears they included a separate sub pre out in the final version :)!! So they took the comments here and elsewhere seriously.
Well, some of them, anyway. Other comments, no so much.
 

withoutsuit

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Does the DSP offer the availability to set not only crossover frequency but also delay and phase for sub out? maybe for both sub outs separate?
 
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