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Buchardt Audio S400

sfdoddsy

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There seems to be this myth that rear passive radiators mean you can place the S400 closer to the rear wall than ported speakers.

You can't. The radiation is the same, passive radiators just don't have the noises.

If you are placing any speaker 5" from the wall, you'll need speakers that are designed for wall placement, or active Room EQ.

And if you are using them as near-field monitors, you won't get room-filling sound anyway. That's kind of the point of near-field monitors.

I'd also think a coincident monitor like a KEF would be better near-field.

Or the Neumann KH80.
 

Aprude51

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All,
I have KEF LS50 paired with NAD C268 (80wpc class D) amp and an external DAC that uses dual Burr Brown DACs. The LS50 are very detailed, can be listened to at lower volumes just fine, image well and seem to have a deeper image from front to back. Vocals and instrumentals are its strengths. They are good for near field listening. I don't really find them too bright with my particular amp and DAC.

That said, I feel the sound can be a bit small, even in my 11'x11' room. If it matters, I should note that I don't have them up on stands 2-3 feet away from rear walls. I put them on an IKEA shelving system, 5" from rear wall, 4.5' apart, on each side of my computer monitor. I just sometimes don't feel like the music fills the entire room and I don't feel enveloped by it when I turn it up.

How would the Buchardt s400 compare? I read that the highs are rolled off, not as airy, that it's more like sitting in the middle section of a concert, whereas the LS50 is more like sitting further up front than that. I hear there is more bass from the s400 and they sound bigger than almost any other bookshelf speaker. What can I expect as an LS50 owner?

Unfortunately, with that configuration I don’t think the S400 will work very well. Mads (Buchardt CEO / Owner) recommends a wide placement, and I found that to be the case. Also, I understand that due to the deep waveguide, the tweeter and woofer don’t integrate well in a nearfield setup. I imagine you would experienced improved bass, due to the passive radiator, but overall I think it’s not a good speaker for your setup.
 
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jtwrace

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I finally got a pair of the S400's to listen to. All I can is WOW! The sound that comes from these monitors is truly exceptional - like scary good. The bass is insane for it's small size. I'm totally hooked and can't wait for their large floor-standers.
 

Head_Unit

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There seems to be this myth that rear passive radiators mean you can place the S400 closer to the rear wall than ported speakers.
Well, a little 2" port being hammered will "jet" out the air, and too close to the wall the smoothness of this flow will be impeded. By contrast to exaggerate the same design with a 10" passive radiator at the same SPL won't have the same velocity due to more area, so could be *somewhat* closer-until the closeness of the wall impedes overall flow. Now "somewhat" is probably just an inch or two. You're certainly correct that you can't shove either right smack up against a wall!
 

direstraitsfan98

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Every single review I've seen for these speakers calls them full range. As taken from their website...

Frequency response: 33 - 40.000 Hz +/- 3dB (in-room)

I wonder how a single 6" driver handling the mids and bass handles musical content under 100hz??? I'm almost positive that this driver, passive radiator or not, would not be capable of reproducing 33hz at -3dB but if I'm wrong and the manufacture is in fact the accurate party here please let me know...
 

Daverz

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Every single review I've seen for these speakers calls them full range. As taken from their website...

Frequency response: 33 - 40.000 Hz +/- 3dB (in-room)

I wonder how a single 6" driver handling the mids and bass handles musical content under 100hz??? I'm almost positive that this driver, passive radiator or not, would not be capable of reproducing 33hz at -3dB but if I'm wrong and the manufacture is in fact the accurate party here please let me know...

"in-room". Maybe some room, but not mine.

buchardt-in-room-response.png


Their anechoic frequency response plot doesn't show anything like -3dB at 33 Hz.

That said, the bass response they do have is pretty satisfying.
 

Sancus

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According to their website, it looks like they're more like -10db at 33hz. But most people and most publications don't use the strict 20hz-20khz definition of full range, so it's not totally unreasonable to call them full range. I mean, the -10db point of the Revel F206 is 30hz, and most people would call them full range.

Buchardt may be stretching the truth by saying -3db 33hz "in-room" but at least they are labeling it "in-room", and IMO they're not lying here. A LOT of manufacturers(maybe the majority?) flat out lie about bass performance in basic specs, in my experience.

So yes, I think they are full range by the common definition of full range, which is more like "will play music from 40hz-20khz at reasonable volume levels". Practically nothing, certainly nothing in this price range/size, is true 20-20 full range anyway.

fig1.png
 

617

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The sb15 will do 40hz, so I'm not surprised the sb17 will do 30. 30 is a bit optimistic but these sb acoustics aluminum cones tend to provide low bass, although not very loud, and at low efficiency.
 

napilopez

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Every single review I've seen for these speakers calls them full range. As taken from their website...

Frequency response: 33 - 40.000 Hz +/- 3dB (in-room)

I wonder how a single 6" driver handling the mids and bass handles musical content under 100hz??? I'm almost positive that this driver, passive radiator or not, would not be capable of reproducing 33hz at -3dB but if I'm wrong and the manufacture is in fact the accurate party here please let me know...

+/- 3dB is pretty much always code for -6dB on the low end.

That said, I'd describe that accurate in many setups. I could certainly hear into the 30s in my room.

"in-room". Maybe some room, but not mine.

View attachment 41586

Their anechoic frequency response plot doesn't show anything like -3dB at 33 Hz.

That said, the bass response they do have is pretty satisfying.

How far are your speakers from the wall?

According to their website, it looks like they're more like -10db at 33hz. But most people and most publications don't use the strict 20hz-20khz definition of full range, so it's not totally unreasonable to call them full range. I mean, the -10db point of the Revel F206 is 30hz, and most people would call them full range.

Buchardt may be stretching the truth by saying -3db 33hz "in-room" but at least they are labeling it "in-room", and IMO they're not lying here. A LOT of manufacturers(maybe the majority?) flat out lie about bass performance in basic specs, in my experience.

So yes, I think they are full range by the common definition of full range, which is more like "will play music from 40hz-20khz at reasonable volume levels". Practically nothing, certainly nothing in this price range/size, is true 20-20 full range anyway.

fig1.png

Yeah, I agree. While I wish Buchardt quoted the anechoic response in its specs as well, the way KEF provides both values, I'll certainly take a full anechoic graph over over a simple anechoic -3dB figure.

And I agree the definition for full-range allows some leeway. Most people have their speakers close to at least the front wall, sometimes the sidewalls too. So there's usually some significant amount of boundary reinforcement.

That said, you probably just meant passive speakers, but there are certainly compact active speakers that count as full range, and some in the price range. The Devialet Phantom Reactor hits 20hz at regular listening levels easily.
 

Sancus

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That said, you probably just meant passive speakers, but there are certainly compact active speakers that count as full range, and some in the price range. The Devialet Phantom Reactor hits 20hz at regular listening levels easily.

Yea, I did mean passive. I expect that the active speakers that Buchardt has planned will have improved bass performance compared to the passive S400s, especially based on some of Mads' earlier posts in this thread.

Really looking forward to seeing those, both the floorstanders and the S400As.
 

Daverz

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+/- 3dB is pretty much always code for -6dB on the low end.

That said, I'd describe that accurate in many setups. I could certainly hear into the 30s in my room.

How far are your speakers from the wall?

About 1 meter. But I don't think this gives as much reinforcement as it would in a rectangular room. The room -- a roughly pentagonal common room in a second floor condo -- has no axis of symmetry. There's an open stairwell rising from the ground floor on the right side, a fireplace behind the right speaker, french doors to the balcony behind the left speaker, and open stairs to the loft on the left side. The speakers are set up across a room corner, but the walls don't meet at 90 degrees. An odd arrangement, but it allows me to have the speakers 2.6 meters apart while keeping them well away from anything to their sides.
 

napilopez

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About 1 meter. But I don't think this gives as much reinforcement as it would in a rectangular room. The room -- a roughly pentagonal common room in a second floor condo -- has no axis of symmetry. There's an open stairwell rising from the ground floor on the right side, a fireplace behind the right speaker, french doors to the balcony behind the left speaker, and open stairs to the loft on the left side. The speakers are set up across a room corner, but the walls don't meet at 90 degrees. An odd arrangement, but it allows me to have the speakers 2.6 meters apart while keeping them well away from anything to their sides.

That's a pretty neat setup! I'm not aware of any studies of the average speaker distance to the front wall, but I would bet most people have their speakers less than 2 feet away, so they'd probably get a fair bit more reinforcement. I tend to prefer having my speakers clos to the front wall. Less noticeable SBIR that way and the bass reinforcement is easy enough to EQ out.
 

Mads Buchardt

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Hey Guys. trying to comment here as much as possible :)

On the topic of bass extension, it's extremely hard to state what to go with. As mentioned, many manufacturers do straight up lie about this, and if we were to just mention an anechoic measurement, it would look like that our speakers do not play any bass on paper. So I did went with a bit of both, an anechoic measurement and a pretty realistic in room statement, measured at the sitting position, we often get better results with them but it's SO room dependent.

Regarding the upcoming actives, i can share an anechoic measurement of the A500 which is only 4 centimeters deeper than the S400. Here its configured as a cardioid speaker, we would also offer a standard 2.5 way setting with them. To those that don't know, on the back, we have another active 6" woofer, this is why we can make them cardioid our a 2.5 way or even 3 way design. The Speakers have 3 x 150w amps, one for each speaker and used closed back cabinet design.

Now please don't see the measurement as a finial product, they are not completely done yet.
 

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Mads Buchardt

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In about 4-5 month, we would have a pre order campaign starting in about 1 month from now.

Its a speaker that is directly designed for quality over quantity. Having two 6" woofers to do 25hz makes an natural limitation to how loud they would be able to go. However when playing very loud, they will automatically take the tuning up so they don't dig as deep. They do know the limitations to the drivers movement. But for a normal to loud listing volume, they are EXTREMELY impressive! :eek: To those that want it loud, we would also have a floorstander with 5 x 6" coming, also with possibility of Cardioid design.
 

fredoamigo

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Hi mads... can you give yourself a (approximate) price range for the future A500 ?
 

Soniclife

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Here its configured as a cardioid speaker, we would also offer a standard 2.5 way setting with them. To those that don't know, on the back, we have another active 6" woofer, this is why we can make them cardioid our a 2.5 way or even 3 way design.
Is it possible for them to switch from one mode to another? They would be a unique if they did that.
 

kaka89

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I want my speaker to be cardioid, and the A500 will be by far the best-looking cardioid speaker on the market!
Dutch & Dutch's 8c has a lot of configuration, does A500 requires the same?

(I listened to a pair of A400 demo in a small treated room, the only thing that it was missing was the ability to reproduce texture in music (compared to my Harbeth M30.1). I hope it will get better in the upcoming version.)
 
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jtwrace

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In about 4-5 month, we would have a pre order campaign starting in about 1 month from now.

Its a speaker that is directly designed for quality over quantity. Having two 6" woofers to do 25hz makes an natural limitation to how loud they would be able to go. However when playing very loud, they will automatically take the tuning up so they don't dig as deep. They do know the limitations to the drivers movement. But for a normal to loud listing volume, they are EXTREMELY impressive! :eek: To those that want it loud, we would also have a floorstander with 5 x 6" coming, also with possibility of Cardioid design.
Any plans to have them Roon ready with both of the actives?
 
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