As can be expected, nothing can substitute raw displacement volume.
Maybe they should use something like Purifi long-throw midbass or servo, but then price will be little different.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Buchardt A500 Measurements and Spinorama
- Thread starter napilopez
- Start date
Maybe they should use something like Purifi long-throw midbass or servo, but then price will be little different.
Instar
Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2020
- Messages
- 37
- Likes
- 72
Yes.
I think A500 need two Purify 6.5inch woofers for more perfect performance.
Even if the price is higher than now, I think that if A500 install two Purify woofers, it's can compete with the kii three and the dutch 8c to some extent in performance. I think it's too hard now.
Last edited:
If your graphs' SPL is correct, it's a total disaster in terms of LF fidelity at advertised SPL.
It have to be obvious in well-treated room.
I think IMD from midwoofer also not good at all.
The 8351B shows an admirable behaviour, though. The small woofers must be quite long throwing.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2020
- Messages
- 4,806
- Likes
- 3,748
I'm definitely interested to know if you prefer the sound of the default or the lower crossover point with this speaker.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #28
It's not, but the standard tuning does limit some off-axis radiation in the lower mids down to about 200Hz. It has the effect of making this region feel a bit snappier. Definitely no D&D 8C, but it did remind me of it a bit in how it presents this area out of the box(which is normally the worst part of my room).
To see what I mean, look at the polar plot down to 200hz for the nearfield tuning:
Now compare that to the directivity down to 200Hz of the standard tuning:
It's definitely fun to mess around with the different tunings. It's like the active speaker version of component matching
My I humbly suggest that it is a bit piontless to build 25Hz extension in a tiny speaker not having multiple 10"-15" woofers .
If one limits the fr to something like flat to 40ish Hz would not that be much better compromise to get usable midbass spl and not stress the drivers to high THD and IMD as i understand its not a 3 way ?
Yes personally i use subs but have turned them off on occasion and still used the HP filter and that extension the sub give me is good but you get so much better performance from the main speaker because the HP filter that it's almost most of the "win" with sub integration ?
So why the design goal of extreme extension with tiny speakers , they are not going to move much air to be of good use...
I do see that Burchart has an active floorstander wonder how that one performs .
Not at all sugesting that this speaker is bad , it's probably very very good , just wondering over the choices made during design is a low -3dB so important for marketting reasons ?
If one limits the fr to something like flat to 40ish Hz would not that be much better compromise to get usable midbass spl and not stress the drivers to high THD and IMD as i understand its not a 3 way ?
Yes personally i use subs but have turned them off on occasion and still used the HP filter and that extension the sub give me is good but you get so much better performance from the main speaker because the HP filter that it's almost most of the "win" with sub integration ?
So why the design goal of extreme extension with tiny speakers , they are not going to move much air to be of good use...
I do see that Burchart has an active floorstander
wonder how that one performs .Not at all sugesting that this speaker is bad , it's probably very very good , just wondering over the choices made during design is a low -3dB so important for marketting reasons ?
For sure.
Also, a lot of people listen nearfield and/or at low SPL, so these choices must have some basement.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #31
My I humbly suggest that it is a bit piontless to build 25Hz extension in a tiny speaker not having multiple 10"-15" woofers .
If one limits the fr to something like flat to 40ish Hz would not that be much better compromise to get usable midbass spl and not stress the drivers to high THD and IMD as i understand its not a 3 way ?
Yes personally i use subs but have turned them off on occasion and still used the HP filter and that extension the sub give me is good but you get so much better performance from the main speaker because the HP filter that it's almost most of the "win" with sub integration ?
So why the design goal of extreme extension with tiny speakers , they are not going to move much air to be of good use...
I do see that Burchart has an active floorstander
Not at all sugesting that this speaker is bad , it's probably very very good , just wondering over the choices made during design is a low -3dB so important for marketting reasons ?
I humbly return that I feel completely the opposite
. If you can make a speaker extend down to 25Hz without it sounding awful why not?In any case, I'm not sure if you read the earlier part of the thread, but the A500 come with multiple tunings, including one that lets you limit bass to about 44Hz (-6dB). So you can do that too. You can use it as a 3 way or a 2.5-way. The choice is yours.
Personally, the way I see it, it doesn't matter how good your speakers are. If they don't have sub-bass, they are incomplete. It's like making a pizza and forgetting the cheese. Unless the distortion is awful and utterly distracting -- which I do not think is the case with the A500 at all -- I will take high distortion sub-bass 100 percent of the time over no sub-bass.
Not everyone can afford to or wants to have subwoofers. I hate the idea of needing subwoofers in general, but I generally use two of them because I have to. But make no mistake: I'd much rather get rid of them.
Anyway, small speakers are getting better at handling high bass all the time. The best example of this to me is still the devialet phantom reactor, a pair of which could comfortably play 25Hz at 95 dB in my living room from 10ft/3m away -- which is louder than I ever listen. (not room corrected, just demonstrating bass)
It's not, but the standard tuning does limit some off-axis radiation in the lower mids down to about 200Hz. It has the effect of making this region feel a bit snappier. Definitely no D&D 8C, but it did remind me of it a bit in how it presents this area out of the box(which is normally the worst part of my room).
To see what I mean, look at the polar plot down to 200hz for the nearfield tuning:
View attachment 80044
Now compare that to the directivity down to 200Hz of the standard tuning:
View attachment 80043
It's definitely fun to mess around with the different tunings. It's like the active speaker version of component matching
@napilopez Given A500 will come with EQ feature (according to Zero review), I suppose it will help eliminate the room mode. Not sure is cardioid pattern overrated for speaker/setup that has EQ capability.
I hope you will get a chance to review the GGNTKT M1 who claim to be able to provide up to 200 Hz cardioid radiation pattern.
My cardioid leaderboard:
D&D 8c: 150Hz - 200Hz
GGNTKT M1: 300Hz
A500, Genelec 8341: 500Hz - 600Hz
I humbly return that I feel completely the opposite
In any case, I'm not sure if you read the earlier part of the thread, but the A500 come with multiple tunings, including one that lets you limit bass to about 44Hz (-6dB). So you can do that too. You can use it as a 3 way or a 2.5-way. The choice is yours.
Personally, the way I see it, it doesn't matter how good your speakers are. If they don't have sub-bass, they are incomplete. It's like making a pizza and forgetting the cheese. Unless the distortion is awful and utterly distracting -- which I do not think is the case with the A500 at all -- I will take high distortion sub-bass 100 percent of the time over no sub-bass.
Not everyone can afford to or wants to have subwoofers. I hate the idea of needing subwoofers in general, but I generally use two of them because I have to. But make no mistake: I'd much rather get rid of them.
Anyway, small speakers are getting better at handling high bass all the time. The best example of this to me is still the devialet phantom reactor, a pair of which could comfortably play 25Hz at 95 dB in my living room from 10ft/3m away -- which is louder than I ever listen. (not room corrected, just demonstrating bass)
View attachment 80048
Yea the reactor is not that a quite special design ,? where is the practical limit for A500 would you actually "hear" any 25Hz ? i've seen the typical fletcher munson curves ? And I've tried with my sub you play very loud when you actually hear 20ish hz something . Just wondering if low bass from such small drivers would reach audible levels at all ? The reactor has very very long stroke drivers dedicated to bass only if understands this correctly ?
Well I just have to do home trial next time its time to uppgrade speakers .Burchart is on my Radar.
If I just guess this speaker the A500 is very likely to beat my Meridian 5200 DSP speakers just by implemeting modern drivers and recent acoustic knowledge for a fraction of the price . The A700 looks very promising too ! very tempting as I'm used to floorstanders and they don't use more space than standmounts anyway they just looks bigger.
Just asking stupid question out of curiosity, when there are so many nice experts such as yourself on these matters on ASR . Thanks for the very thoruogh and detailed review .
Reading about all the different master tunings on other sites too. cool !
Observation re Internet direct brands , they are really quick to market before complete documentation or even complete products ? but hey its probably the future
Observation re Internet direct brands , they are really quick to market before complete documentation or even complete products ? but hey its probably the future
I do not know this for certain but I suspect that the EQ feature will be based on the WiSA system EQ.
Agreed, I made the same point in a headphone EQ thread. I can mute my sub with a remote whilst it is playing, with the mains unchanged, it's fascinating how a lot of the time you kind of don't notice the missing bass, especially if a track starts with the sub muted, then you un-mute and go 'oh, there is a bass drum on this track, you could not tell there was one at all before'.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #37
Oh not a stupid question at all! Just was pointing out my perspective.
The Reactor woofers have the crossover at 525Hz, so they actually cover a pretty wide range!
The A500 definitely has audible bass at 25Hz. Remember that the measurements I shared are quasi-anechoic -- in a normal room the bass will be boosted a bunch. Moreover, the speakers incorporate loudness compensation curves to make sure you have an adequate amount of bass at lower volumes -- a welcome touch.
I will post some more extensive room EQ measurements later, but for example at a normal listening volume for me, 25hz is not a problem roughly following the proper curve:
Yeah. I listen to a lot of bass heavy music too, and though it course I want cleaner bass, having it there in the first place is more important to me. I feel like Genelec and Neumann have strict distortion standards they adhere to, and that's why they don't try to 'squeeze' more bass performance out of their monitors despite the DSP, but I prefer having the option to without jumping through hoops.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2020
- Messages
- 4,806
- Likes
- 3,748
It seems like the A500 is a good option for someone who doesn't already have a system based around an AVR. If you already have XT32 and use Dynamic EQ, you're getting the majority of the benefits, and it might make more sense to get the S400's, especially if you also have a good external amp. The A500 would fit perfectly where someone doesn't have those things.
Don't forget the Kii Three
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/kii-three-loudspeaker-review-r735/page/3/
Looks good down to around 100hz
I didn't forget the Kii but it was just priced too high.
But looks like it can do down to 80Hz! Impressive.
Similar threads
