Buchardt A500 Measurements and Spinorama

[Pearljam5000]

I actually think the 8351b look great in white, especially if I had a more modern interior design.

A700s seem like a great value. Linearity is not quite as perfect as the 8351, nor are they point source, but their bass performance is far, far better, and I love the master tunings concept and implementation. They're also considerably cheaper than the 8351s. Very rare to see bass performance at that pricepoint. For comparison, they have considerably more bass extension than the Salon2. The bass is also more flat than the Salon2's, which starts rolling off above 100Hz. The Salon2 is ~3x the price.

If you add 2x 12 inch subs to the 8351B would that be comparable to the A700?

 

[sharock]

There is a master tuning with an 1800hz crossover.

Could someone explain the effect of this or help me interpret Buchardt's charts? The explanations Mads provides don't really help me understand why, in a nearfield application where high SPL isn't important, I might favour the 2.5-way, 3-way or 3-way with 1800Hz crossover mastertunings. The most obvious difference I can see is more bass extension in the 2.5-way nearfield tuning. What does "delicate" mean in reference to midrange presentation?

My ears are not experienced enough to memorise and recall the differences after switching between master tunings!

Thanks.

 

[richard12511]

If you add 2x 12 inch subs to the 8351B would that be comparable to the A700?

I suppose it depends on the subs . Maybe go sealed if you want to match the A700(since it's sealed)? 17Hz from the A700 is super impressive, though. That's 1dB lower than the ported JTR 215RT, which is much larger.

 

[ciotime]

I'm just wondering that the Buchardt A500 retails for about $4500 while Klipsch the Fives at about $800. I know they are not the same category of speakers and have no doubt that the Buchardts are better. But are they $3700 BETTER?????

 

[kafisatz]

I'm just wondering that the Buchardt A500 retails for about $4500 while Klipsch the Fives at about $800. I know they are not the same category of speakers and have no doubt that the Buchardts are better. But are they $3700 BETTER?????

As I am looking for a new set of actives speakers, I though about this too. I have considered various brands at different price points such as Dynaudio Xeo 20, Focus XD, Genelecs, Adam Audio, Neumann, Dutch & Dutch 8c and the Buchardt (the Kii 3 are definitely too expensive and possibly also have a worse price/value proposition although I cannot really judge this).
My take on your question is: it is extremely difficult for others to answer this question for you. I do not know the Klipsch Fives, but I would expect them to be good speakers for the value.
Diminishing returns (I hope that is the right terminology hear) is a well known concept. I personally think that the tipping point is very subjective and thus is at a very different price level for different people.

 

[ciotime]

As I am looking for a new set of actives speakers, I though about this too. I have considered various brands at different price points such as Dynaudio Xeo 20, Focus XD, Genelecs, Adam Audio, Neumann, Dutch & Dutch 8c and the Buchardt (the Kii 3 are definitely too expensive and possibly also have a worse price/value proposition although I cannot really judge this).
My take on your question is: it is extremely difficult for others to answer this question for you. I do not know the Klipsch Fives, but I would expect them to be good speakers for the value.
Diminishing returns (I hope that is the right terminology hear) is a well known concept. I personally think that the tipping point is very subjective and thus is at a very different price level for different people.

Have you also considered the Kef LS50 wireless 2? I saw an announcement of the Buckhardt FB page that they will soon come out with the A300 with a price of about $3000...a smaller version of the A500...5" woofer ( A500 is 6" ).

 

[kafisatz]

Well the Kef wireless were on top of my mental list for years (not sure when the first version came out). Now that I convinced my partner about this investment, I started researching again. This brought me across the above mentioned brands. I currently am considering prices (and thus hopefully “value”) in excess of the Kef wireless 2. Although from what I understand those are excellent speakers. I have seen various good reviews on those (and their predecessors).
It just seems difficult, and I think you are having a very similar challenge, to judge what the added value is for some more dollars. Eg a500 over kef wireless 2. Of course listening to them all in my room would be the answer. But that is challenging and time consuming (the a500 ship in may.....)

 

[extenso]

Have you also considered the Kef LS50 wireless 2? I saw an announcement of the Buckhardt FB page that they will soon come out with the A300 with a price of about $3000...a smaller version of the A500...5" woofer ( A500 is 6" ).

Well the Kef wireless were on top of my mental list for years (not sure when the first version came out). Now that I convinced my partner about this investment, I started researching again. This brought me across the above mentioned brands. I currently am considering prices (and thus hopefully “value”) in excess of the Kef wireless 2. Although from what I understand those are excellent speakers. I have seen various good reviews on those (and their predecessors).
It just seems difficult, and I think you are having a very similar challenge, to judge what the added value is for some more dollars. Eg a500 over kef wireless 2. Of course listening to them all in my room would be the answer. But that is challenging and time consuming (the a500 ship in may.....)

I know it is bad form to advertise for my own speakers, but I think they could be a part of your consideration. It is the Cabasse The Pearl Akoya pictured in my avatar, a triaxial speaker. It is often compared to the various Phantoms from Devialet. Maybe because both are French and visually out of the ordinary. I find the Akoyas more balanced sounding, but I have seen few trustworthy measurements.

 

[ciotime]

Well the Kef wireless were on top of my mental list for years (not sure when the first version came out). Now that I convinced my partner about this investment, I started researching again. This brought me across the above mentioned brands. I currently am considering prices (and thus hopefully “value”) in excess of the Kef wireless 2. Although from what I understand those are excellent speakers. I have seen various good reviews on those (and their predecessors).
It just seems difficult, and I think you are having a very similar challenge, to judge what the added value is for some more dollars. Eg a500 over kef wireless 2. Of course listening to them all in my room would be the answer. But that is challenging and time consuming (the a500 ship in may.....)

I know the feeling. From what I know the smaller cheaper A300 won't be out for at least a couple of months more. At least you can return the A500 if you don't like them. So far all the review's I've seen really think the A500 is worth the extra bucks.

 

[sharock]

Have you also considered the Kef LS50 wireless 2? I saw an announcement of the Buckhardt FB page that they will soon come out with the A300 with a price of about $3000...a smaller version of the A500...5" woofer ( A500 is 6" ).

How much do you value the low frequencies?

I would say the A500 objectively outperforms most speakers of similar cabinet size below 100Hz. The THD in the bass is widely documented, but I can't say I notice it personally.

 

[ciotime]

How much do you value the low frequencies?

I would say the A500 objectively outperforms most speakers of similar cabinet size below 100Hz. The THD in the bass is widely documented, but I can't say I notice it personally.

Oh are you the proud owner of the A500? If so are you keeping it? Is it really as good as the reviewer's say they are? I already have a dedicated HT room and the main use of these speakers for me will be for the bedroom. That's why I got interested in the A500's is coz of the room correction/master tuning options coz my bedroom is untreated...bare walls. I used to have soundbar's but realized that they really are just crap.

 

[sharock]

Oh are you the proud owner of the A500? If so are you keeping it? Is it really as good as the reviewer's say they are? I already have a dedicated HT room and the main use of these speakers for me will be for the bedroom. I used to have soundbar's but realized that they really are just crap.

I currently use a pair on my computer desk in the nearfield and was considering another pair or the A300 for the bedroom. I have Elac powered floorstanders and an SVS sub for the TV, but if I'd known about the A700 in advance I would have probably gone that route instead since they would take up less space and need fewer cables lying around thanks to WiSA.

I'm very pleased with my pair although I'm not the traditional audiophile. I like the all-in-one solution you get with the A500 in terms of streaming hub, good amplification, simple LF room EQ, tidiness of WiSA with fewer boxes/cables, decent FR with proven measurements and the ability to use master tunings (and eventually parametric EQ).

I actually answered my own question above by finding the review from OP here: https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020...this-feels-like-the-future-of-hi-fi-speakers/ this is arguably the best review of the A500 that isn't pure subjectivist.

 

[ciotime]

I currently use a pair on my computer desk in the nearfield and was considering another pair or the A300 for the bedroom. I have Elac powered floorstanders and an SVS sub for the TV, but if I'd known about the A700 in advance I would have probably gone that route instead since they would take up less space and need fewer cables lying around thanks to WiSA.

I'm very pleased with my pair although I'm not the traditional audiophile. I like the all-in-one solution you get with the A500 in terms of streaming hub, good amplification, simple LF room EQ, tidiness of WiSA fewer boxes, decent FR with proven measurements and the ability to use master tunings (and eventually parametric EQ).

I actually answered my own question above by finding the review from OP here: https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020...this-feels-like-the-future-of-hi-fi-speakers/

Hahaha...seems like I might bite the bullet and get them while the white is still available.

 

[kafisatz]

Also, there will be a WISA sub from Buchardt which should integrate nicely.

 

[ciotime]

Also, there will be a WISA sub from Buchardt which should integrate nicely.

Yeah I heard...also an updated HUB.

 

[sharock]

I'm interested in the new hub since it would allow me to use multi-room with my BluOS kit as well as the other Buchardt hub, I think. Mads said it won't be cheap though!

 

[ciotime]

I'm interested in the new hub since it would allow me to use multi-room with my BluOS kit as well as the other Buchardt hub, I think. Mads said it won't be cheap though!

Yikes...

 

[ctrl]

The German online magazine Lowbeats has reviewed the A700. A measurement of the IMD shows excellent results, except for the 50-150Hz range. There, IMD is 3-5% at 94dB-SPL@1m, which is a bit much for such a large floorstander.

@napilopez have you ever done an IMD measurement for the A500? Since only one subwoofer chassis is used there, the IMD at 94dB could be significantly higher than with the A700.

 

[thewas]

The German online magazine Lowbeats has reviewed the A700. A measurement of the IMD shows excellent results, except for the 50-150Hz range. There, IMD is 3-5% at 94dB-SPL@1m, which is a bit much for such a large floorstander.

Mind you their IMD measurements for example of a tiny 2 way loudspeaker don't look much worse, which makes me wonder about their meaningfulness:

https://www.lowbeats.de/test-bw-607-geniale-kompaktbox-fuer-kleines-geld/
Ok, the tested B&W 607 has no real bass output below 50 Hz which gives them an advantage there, but nevertheless weirly impressive imho.

 

[Scholl]

If I am not mistaken, the S400, A500 and A700 all use variants of the SB acoustics SB17 family of woofers. As the SB17 CAC test by Erin showed, these drivers have great midrange distortion figures, but are not so good below 150Hz. They are notably limited as far excursion is concerned (2.8mm Klippel verified by Erin). This could explain why the A700, despite its size and number of woofers, displays quite poor IMD in the bass compared to the rest of the spectrum.

Now I may be mistaken in my assumption, Buchardt may have ordered some custom versions of the SB17 with better excursion performance. But if it not the case, I would consider this as a poor choice for a bass driver. Better to have dedicated bass drivers with good excursion and dedicated midrange drivers, which the SB17 pretty much are.