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Bryston BP-25 Preamp, 10B-Sub Electronic Crossover, and 3B-ST Amplifier - Measurements and Review

Thank you for this great write-up, @MAB,

For some of us working stiffs, Brystons (that we read about in audio periodicals of the era) were like the centerfolds of Penthouse.
i.e. Unobtainum!
We was too poor and could only afford Adcom gear... w/o going into debt! sigh

Would it be rude to ask what pricing these beautiful-models charged?;)
 
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Thank you for this great write-up, @MAB,

For some of us working stiffs, Brystons (that we read about in audio periodicals of the era) were like the centerfolds of Penthouse.
i.e. Unobtainum!
We was too poor and could only afford Adcom gear... w/o going into debt! sigh

Would it be rude to ask what pricing these beautiful-models charged?;)
Thanks for the kind words.:)

The cost was high, 2-3x an equivalent Adcom for example.

My memory was fuzzy on the list prices back in ~1995, I recall:
BP-25: ~$2000 (the phono and DAC modules added large cost, mine is the basic version)
3B-ST: ~$1600
10B-Sub: ~$1500
Bryston was seldom sold at any discount.
I got mine when I worked at a store that sold them, so did get a discount. The crossover was used, still not cheap.

You can make an argument that $50 per year per piece isn't too bad. It's a weak argument, but sounds good in hindsight. ;)
 
You can make an argument that $50 per year per piece isn't too bad. It's a weak argument, but sounds good in hindsight. ;)
Is there any other way measuring cost?

It's always, ALWAYS a through time equation.
 
Is there any other way measuring cost?

It's always, ALWAYS a through time equation.
I agree.
It is just hard to predict at the time of purchase if the item will really last in value, and if we will really be using it 30 years later.
 
I recently retired a BP25MC preamp, with the moving-coil phono-amp (step-up transformer) board addition. This configuration added a toggle switch to the front for either 'MM' or 'MC' gain levels. Manufactured in Jan. 2003, I am its 2nd owner, since Jan. '05. I believe MSRP when manufactured was ~$3400 with the remote and MC board.

Interestingly, in this configuration Bryston supplied an owners manual for the BP 20/25 preamps, with an additional manual for their stand-alone BP1.5 phono preamp. A measurements and a graph page are included for the preamp and phono amp sections of the actual manufactured sample.

Absolutely rock-solid piece of kit. I will soon have to list this for sale somewhere to pass on to a new owner. :cool:
 
I agree.
It is just hard to predict at the time of purchase if the item will really last in value, and if we will really be using it 30 years later.
In case you know the circuit schematics, the components used and you have the chance to check the manufacturing quality, you may predict, quite reliably, the audio gear reliability and life time. But it is hard to predict the loss of value expressed in money.
 
Yessir, agreed 100%! The entry price for Bryston is very high, but the quality (and warranty) is there for sure.
Deduct the time (hours that you will never get back, and what you would get paid per hour for your time from a job you are qualified for) that you are without music & the time that takes to decide on & get a replacement & install it in your system & how many times that you will have to do that during one Bryston life before a repair is needed.
And the peace of mind that a Bryston brings (pretty sure that it will work correctly every time that you turn it on for decades) and see how that stacks up.
Just not having to worry about it for decades is reason enough for me.
There is other gear that has that level of reliability, also. But you will also not get it new: on the cheap!
You takes your chances & picks your poison. It's what you think will work best for you.
 
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I have a 2B-LP as well, but one channel has some hum. I contacted the US repair rep, and he kind of talked me out of having it repaired, claiming it was probably 'normal', and was not interested in arguing with him about it. I'll be very curious to see your measurements.
I haven't decided to resell it as is, or have one more go at the repair guy (they are modules, so not hard to ship.)
The 3B and 2B make a nice pair in the rack, though:) and would make a nice set of amps for a two way system.
Hi-fi amps should not have ANY audible hiss and cetainly not hum, under any circumstances. I know that since using a Purifi class D poweramp...
 
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Hi-fi amps should not have ANY audible hiss and cetainly not hum, under any circumstances. I know that since using a Purifi class D poweramp...
I never had any audible hiss or hum, even with 97 DB for 1 watt speakers with AB amps. So I guess that I was doing it right & chose the right gear.
Never used a Class D amp, so that is not why you don't have hiss & hum.
 
I never had any audible hiss or hum, even with 97 DB for 1 watt speakers with AB amps. So I guess that I was doing it right & chose the right gear.
Never used a Class D amp, so that is not why you don't have hiss & hum.
Please read and quote the original post to which my post was a reply as well... I'm not stating you need a class D amp, just saying that I will not tolerate any hum or hiss ever again, from any amp (at this price), since I own one myself, and so should you.
Good to hear your setup does not disappoint. I love class my class AB's too.
 
Please read and quote the original post to which my post was a reply as well... I'm not stating you need a class D amp, just saying that I will not tolerate any hum or hiss ever again, from any amp (at this price), since I own one myself, and so should you.
Good to hear your setup does not disappoint. I love class my class AB's too.
I'm in full agreement on hiss, hum and other audible manifestations.
Sorry, I now see that there is more context to your whole...
 
Just came across this and it stirred a memory in my aged and addled mind "I've got one of those in the garage" turns out it's a 4BST! I must get my son to come over to help me lift it and swap it with the Threshold S300 I have driving the bass section of my KEF's. I did try it 15 or 20 years ago but settled on the Threshold because my wife said it matched the Threshold S150 I use for the upper frequencies. I cant recall any glaring differences except the Bryston could play louder.
 
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Just came across this and it stirred a memory in my aged and addled mind "I've got one of those in the garage" turns out it's a 4BST! I must get my son to come over to help me lift it and swap it with the Threshold S300 I have driving the bass section of my KEF's. I did try it 15 or 20 years ago but settled on the Threshold because my wife said it matched the Threshold S150 I use for the upper frequencies. I cant recall any glaring differences except the Bryston could play louder.
The Thresholds you have are also tremendous amps, from another world class amp designer (Nelson Pass). Likely the only difference in sound quality would be the Threshold’s ability to drive ultra low impedance speakers. Most people don't have a load that will result in sonic differences. The Bryston is just a bit more powerful. I think both are legendary classics.
 
The Thresholds you have are also tremendous amps, from another world class amp designer (Nelson Pass). Likely the only difference in sound quality would be the Threshold’s ability to drive ultra low impedance speakers. Most people don't have a load that will result in sonic differences. The Bryston is just a bit more powerful. I think both are legendary classics.
A Threshold with a CLEAR top was someone's that I drooled over years ago.
 
I also had a black 3B-ST with the rack mount faceplate and handles. I loved the industrial look and chunky heat sinks and power button.

I bought my amp when it was 16 yrs old, and I sold it 3 years later and was still within warranty. Highly recommended amp and if I had the space I would pick up another one because of the remarkable build quality..
 
I think you might want to review a bit more of ASR and the information available on what humans actually can hear, and what sighted listening does to our ability to discriminate.

Suffice to say most amps sound the same. Bryston are even more indistinguishable than most.
See page 78 for a classic test of how properly working amps are indistinguishable.
https://americanradiohistory.com/Archive-HiFI-Stereo/80s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1987-01.pdf
Bryston amps work properly unless broken.
I just know what I hear. Alan Goodwin of Goowinins Highend in Waltham once offered me !/2 the store if I just set up and tuned systems the way I do. In order to do what I like to do, you have to know how the small differences add up to larger differences,. If most amps sounded the same, then I would be happy with a ****** Sony amp or some crap modern day Marantz home theater chip amp.. Sadly IMHO many manufacturers have lost some of the special edge and accuracy that once made them famous instead trading for more power and frankly pushing Specs that have little to no influence on the sound and enjoyment of music.

For me , it's pretty simple. Listen to an amazing guitar, then listen to a lesser quality guitar of the same manufacturer. Or , if you have ever had the royal PITA "opportunity" to go and listen to a bunch of the same model of piano , having them tuned carefully before deciding which on to buy (I had to do this for people and I hate doing it) well...there is a difference. Even between the same piano from the same manufacturer.

I have heard some amplifiers make the instruments sound more like what the instrument producer was on track to doing. For instance when a speaker or amplifier makes it seem like you inched up the line a bit in terms of instrument quality. Not Like I want an Upright to sound like a Steinway Grand.... but I want that Steinway Grand to sound like one of the better Steinway Grands I selected...because you bet those accomplished musicians,,, they want those instruments in their recordings.

Thats how I personally gauge a REALLY GOOD amplifier is one that is "truer" to the instruments through the recordings which I deem as conveying more of what the artist, and maker of the instruments intended to give us a feeling of fulfillment of the promise of music and how it transcends us.

And I am NOT a huge music lover... I'm really not- yes I can really get into some songs that defiantly change my mood - most of the time I just used my music system to get attractive women to stay up listening until they fell asleep in my arms in college.

I require a great PROPERLY SET UP system to really get into it.

And then I really get into it. But ti sucks because when I go to an Audio show or to a persons house... I have to a djsut their system first.. And sure they love that...but I wish I could just walk into a room, car, lounge , and know I will like the SQ of the systems. Which is why I suppose I'm trying to design systems for EVs- so at least I could have a decent car system. Someday I'd love to set up audiophile lounges all over the world... and oddly... it might be the car audio world that will allow for this. Because what good is an audiophile lounge where the only great seats are the middle ones? Well there is a new up mixer that isn't just about steering sounds to discrete channels , but it is about creating additional phantom channels like out phantom center- to stabilize the image over a wider area.

I wish I had some huge breadth of musical knowledge... I don't . I just know when it sounds right. I get part of my enjoyment from setting up systems that amaze people and enrapture them, capturing all of their listening ability. I want them to listen, not to just hear. It's like a guy who can pair great wines and meals for his friends, but doesn't know why he has this weird ability.

But comments like the one above are fine for the guy who doesn't have the ability to do what I do. I can see where he is coming from. He probably couldn't design a top level audiophile speaker either. And likely his system isn't optimized for tuning well enough to even hear the differences between a similar line of amplifier... but hey... the manufacturers try to and sometimes do.

Its just that sometimes, the founder either loses interest, loses some of his hearing, or appoints someone else to to the job he was really great at , but the new person just deosn';t have the ear to understand where to take the brand to the future.

Part of the problem with the audio science review.. is that if you can't measure it, you assume it doesn't exist... well how far would physics have gone without a hunch that there was something there that we could not see?

To many of the people on these forums and others.... but Particularly on this forum...I would wager that very few systems are actually properly set up . I look for example on Youtube...and see these acoustic nightmare rooms ..which couldn't even be addressed with great DSP - and I think...who is this Shepard leading people into a brick wall.


Next time I'm at an audio show, give me a decent room with high quality gear. Give me about 40 minutes , and I will transform that room. Give me more time and I will transform it further.

Then you can flame me once you hear the before and after.

If all the science here doesn't produce great sound... you may as well just buy a bunch of HT receivers set them up in an equilateral triangle and call it day but there are differences between gear , amplifiers ( and yes we all know about that amplifier challenge... but I'll bet its not in an accurate great room, not with really resolving music, and not with great speakers and the speakers are not optimally positioned to propeller couple with the room. For instance set me up with some PSB Alpha loudspeakers, not set up well in an echoing room and I couldn't tell the difference between amplifiers. Its like asking someone to tell wines of difference vintages but burning his tongue and adding mud to each wine.
 
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I just know what I hear. Alan Goodwin of Goowinins Highend in Waltham once offered me !/2 the store if I just set up and tuned systems the way I do. In order to do what I like to do, you have to know how the small differences add up to larger differences,. If most amps sounded the same, then I would be happy with a ****** Sony amp or some crap modern day Marantz home theater chip amp.. Sadly IMHO many manufacturers have lost some of the special edge and accuracy that once made them famous instead trading for more power and frankly pushing Specs that have little to no influence on the sound and enjoyment of music.

For me , it's pretty simple. Listen to an amazing guitar, then listen to a lesser quality guitar of the same manufacturer. Or , if you have ever had the royal PITA "opportunity" to go and listen to a bunch of the same model of piano , having them tuned carefully before deciding which on to buy (I had to do this for people and I hate doing it) well...there is a difference. Even between the same piano from the same manufacturer.

I have heard some amplifiers make the instruments sound more like what the instrument producer was on track to doing. For instance when a speaker or amplifier makes it seem like you inched up the line a bit in terms of instrument quality. Not Like I want an Upright to sound like a Steinway Grand.... but I want that Steinway Grand to sound like one of the better Steinway Grands I selected...because you bet those accomplished musicians,,, they want those instruments in their recordings.

Thats how I personally gauge a REALLY GOOD amplifier is one that is "truer" to the instruments through the recordings which I deem as conveying more of what the artist, and maker of the instruments intended to give us a feeling of fulfillment of the promise of music and how it transcends us.

And I am NOT a huge music lover... I'm really not- yes I can really get into some songs that defiantly change my mood - most of the time I just used my music system to get attractive women to stay up listening until they fell asleep in my arms in college.

I require a great PROPERLY SET UP system to really get into it.

And then I really get into it. But ti sucks because when I go to an Audio show or to a persons house... I have to a djsut their system first.. And sure they love that...but I wish I could just walk into a room, car, lounge , and know I will like the SQ of the systems. Which is why I suppose I'm trying to design systems for EVs- so at least I could have a decent car system. Someday I'd love to set up audiophile lounges all over the world... and oddly... it might be the car audio world that will allow for this. Because what good is an audiophile lounge where the only great seats are the middle ones? Well there is a new up mixer that isn't just about steering sounds to discrete channels , but it is about creating additional phantom channels like out phantom center- to stabilize the image over a wider area.

I wish I had some huge breadth of musical knowledge... I don't . I just know when it sounds right. I get part of my enjoyment from setting up systems that amaze people and enrapture them, capturing all of their listening ability. I want them to listen, not to just hear. It's like a guy who can pair great wines and meals for his friends, but doesn't know why he has this weird ability.

But comments like the one above are fine for the guy who doesn't have the ability to do what I do. I can see where he is coming from. He probably couldn't design a top level audiophile speaker either. And likely his system isn't optimized for tuning well enough to even hear the differences between a similar line of amplifier... but hey... the manufacturers try to and sometimes do.

Its just that sometimes, the founder either loses interest, loses some of his hearing, or appoints someone else to to the job he was really great at , but the new person just deosn';t have the ear to understand where to take the brand to the future.

Part of the problem with the audio science review.. is that if you can't measure it, you assume it doesn't exist... well how far would physics have gone without a hunch that there was something there that we could not see?

To many of the people on these forums and others.... but Particularly on this forum...I would wager that very few systems are actually properly set up . I look for example on Youtube...and see these acoustic nightmare rooms ..which couldn't even be addressed with great DSP - and I think...who is this Shepard leading people into a brick wall.


Next time I'm at an audio show, give me a decent room with high quality gear. Give me about 40 minutes , and I will transform that room. Give me more time and I will transform it further.

Then you can flame me once you hear the before and after.

If all the science here doesn't produce great sound... you may as well just buy a bunch of HT receivers set them up in an equilateral triangle and call it day but there are differences between gear , amplifiers ( and yes we all know about that amplifier challenge... but I'll bet its not in an accurate great room, not with really resolving music, and not with great speakers and the speakers are not optimally positioned to propeller couple with the room. For instance set me up with some PSB Alpha loudspeakers, not set up well in an echoing room and I couldn't tell the difference between amplifiers. Its like asking someone to tell wines of difference vintages but burning his tongue and adding mud to each wine.
Hey Golden Ears, what a manifesto!
Thanks for the effective use of ALL CAPS. ;)
Sounds like you can really save money on the microphone and spend more on music, but then...
I'll probably pass though on having you transform my room. It doesn't seem practical.
 
Next time I'm at an audio show, give me a decent room with high quality gear. Give me about 40 minutes , and I will transform that room. Give me more time and I will transform it further.
Maybe you could start a new thread where you detail your process? I very much doubt - based on the content of your post - that you will tell us anything we don't already know. Prove me wrong.
 
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