Bruno Putzeys ‘Life on the edge’

[Somafunk]

That was a good read

I particularly liked his summations over the last few titled paragraphs “A broken model, integrated systems are a matter of…… Life & death.

But as an active studio monitor listener since 2000 I would agree with his summary wouldn’t I?



As for hifi dying?, I’m not surprised as the main focal point in modern homes is usually a large screen with a soundbar that doubles as a streaming endpoint.

I have the only “dedicated” speaker/sub setup of anyone I know, always been so as I’ve never owned a tv and whilst mates enjoy the sound they can’t be arsed with such a setup as music these days is an afterthought. A Sonos soundbar and sub sounds perfectly decent.

 

[Bjorn]

This just reminded of Don and Carolyn's book.

 

[antcollinet]

If you been unaware of acoustics, how can you know with no references to compare to?

Know what? That I had sound I loved, or that it is icing on the cake.

Item 1 - I loved it.
Item 2 - I now have Dirac live, and Audessey - they can both be a great improvment - but let me refer you to item 1. It is possible (and most people do) to enjoy high quality music without room correction.

 

[Bjorn]

Know what? That I had sound I loved, or that it is icing on the cake.

Item 1 - I loved it.
Item 2 - I now have Dirac live, and Audessey - they can both be a great improvment - but let me refer you to item 1. It is possible (and most people do) to enjoy high quality music without room correction.

We have to agree to disagree.

I hold on to the fact that the major reasons why young people don't care about hifi is largely due to poor sound quality besides prices. Which again is very much related to room acoustics, but obviously also speaker design. There isn't much that impresses IMO. Most likely their ear buds present something far better.

 

[goryu]

I disagree. I've spent most of my life being totally unaware of room acoustic's importance to hifi, and still had sound I loved.

No-one I know who has audio systems even use DSP, let alone room treatments. It is all icing on the cake, not the cake itself.

It is possible (and most people do) to enjoy high quality music without room correction.

Like they say, ignorance is bliss.

One can enjoy music from a transistor radio too. That fact that people can enjoy music from any source is besides the point. For those seeking audio reproduction excellence and find highly accurate reproduction of the recorded signal enjoyable, room correction is another step in that direction. Some might argue that without it, you aren't experiencing high quality music reproduction.

 

[antcollinet]

We have to agree to disagree.

Seems we will

I hold on to the fact that the major reasons why young people don't care about hifi is largely due to poor sound quality besides prices.

Where as I would hold the major reason is they are being told by audiophiles or dealers they won't get anything worth listening to unless they spend all the money, have arcane tech to play vinyl, and have to jump through all sorts of hoops to treat and DSP the room.

Whereas something along the lines of a Wiim amp pro with a decent pair of speakers, or a Wiim pro with a decent pair of actives will give them sound that will blow them away compared to what they have been using until now.

With or without room correction.

 

[Bjorn]

Seems we will


Where as I would hold the major reason is they are being told by audiophiles or dealers they won't get anything worth listening to unless they spend all the money, have arcane tech to play vinyl, and have to jump through all sorts of hoops to treat and DSP the room.

Whereas something along the lines of a Wiim amp pro with a decent pair of speakers, or a Wiim pro with a decent pair of actives will give them sound that will blow them away compared to what they have been using until now.

With or without room correction.

I think they are often presented with that. Whether it's a small Kef, PSB or a Genelec speaker.

I worked in an audio store for a while where we sold both PA and hifi. There was one thing that blew young people away.
And that was large active PA speakers with a 15" or 18" woofer. And that's also what you generally don't get to hear at hifi stores or at shows. Not saying that's all to a good speake design, but large speakers do make it more engaging to listen to

 

[Hear Here]

I really don't know but I bet you can find budget power amps with a lot more power than the M33 and similar noise.

Only those with low sensitivity speakers need "a lot more power". Why have a 400 watt amp if you normally need no more than 50? Granted a generous degree of headroom is needed for crescendos to avoid distortion, but 200 watts normally very acceptable for 90% of speakers.

The point is that QUALITY comes at a price and the M33 for example offers more quality than other NAD devices that have similar power outputs. Likewise the "Purifi Eigentakt" amps you find offered cheaply on Ebay etc are likely to be even worse in terms of sound quality. If one's speakers are mid-fi, then granted, it's not worth buying the best amplifier.

 

[Theta]

Or ‘how could we have been that gullible’.
Keith

Who do you see as the gullible ones? Sorry but your posts always say, imply or insinuate that those who do not praise or buy Bruno P. products are gullible, uninformed or lacking in education..

 

[Blumlein 88]

When did that happen?

Near the dawn of the 21st century. Kind of fitting the 1st version of the amp was called the Millennium.

 

[pjug]

Only those with low sensitivity speakers need "a lot more power". Why have a 400 watt amp if you normally need no more than 50? Granted a generous degree of headroom is needed for crescendos to avoid distortion, but 200 watts normally very acceptable for 90% of speakers.

The point is that QUALITY comes at a price and the M33 for example offers more quality than other NAD devices that have similar power outputs. Likewise the "Purifi Eigentakt" amps you find offered cheaply on Ebay etc are likely to be even worse in terms of sound quality. If one's speakers are mid-fi, then granted, it's not worth buying the best amplifier.

I agree with your first point. I only talked about more power because I thought that might be part of the "challenge" you presented.

Quality can mean a lot of things. For reliability and longevity I would bet on the Outlaws over the M33, because of the advantage of having a simple singular function.

 

[Purité Audio]

Only those with low sensitivity speakers need "a lot more power". Why have a 400 watt amp if you normally need no more than 50? Granted a generous degree of headroom is needed for crescendos to avoid distortion, but 200 watts normally very acceptable for 90% of speakers.

The point is that QUALITY comes at a price and the M33 for example offers more quality than other NAD devices that have similar power outputs. Likewise the "Purifi Eigentakt" amps you find offered cheaply on Ebay etc are likely to be even worse in terms of sound quality. If one's speakers are mid-fi, then granted, it's not worth buying the best amplifier.

Mid-fi ?
Keith

 

[Newman]

My favourite quote from the article:-

Sadly, that letter, combined with the binary nature of the output stage, convinced even intelligent people that it stood for “digital”. You’d think that a device that delivers a time-varying voltage and current into a loudspeaker load is unambiguously analog, but enthusiasm often precludes clear thought.

If only...

 

[Sokel]

Young people will not be interested out of the blue.It takes an experience to do so.
I can take myself for example.Nice audio stuff was around me since I was born.Instruments too.

But these audio stuff were at the typical small floostander speaker league as in most houses.
The first good experience was when I visited Scotland were the father of my girlfriend back then,a dean at a college had some short of an a-typical race with his colleagues about the "best" sound.
So,some really nice 2 meter speakers (didn't know then,I now know they were PCM),a pile of gear and a big space.
He was blasting Mahler at probably 90dB (C) SPL average (so peaks at 115dB (Z) probably) and the 18yo me was felt like I was there,at a venue.

The second moment was at a studio were some soffit-mounted ATCs (probably 150's) were playing the best bass I had ever heard till then and I was explained that this was because of room treatment,etc.

I was probably infected by the germ early on but it did took some similar experiences to get my hands on it.
Same is needed with all new people I guess.

 

[restorer-john]

My favourite quote from the article:

Of course, compact disc players are analogue too.

Right from the RF straight off the PD array, through to the output at the end. (what happens in the middle- sshh - doesn't matter)

The comparator in a schmitt trigger is 100% analog and the output is binary, but that's not digital either?

All "digital" is actually analog if you're selling Class D amplifiers.

 

[mhardy6647]

My favourite quote from the article:-



If only...

Just like they think Class A amplification is the best!

 

[Newman]

Of course, compact disc players are analogue too.
Right from the RF straight off the PD array, through to the output at the end. (what happens in the middle- sshh - doesn't matter)
The comparator in a schmitt trigger is 100% analog and the output is binary, but that's not digital either?
All "digital" is actually analog if you're selling Class D amplifiers.

Oh come on...

 

[Palladium]

I'm not sure there is much of a demand for HiFi any more. Do the younger generations really care?

Both of my sons were raised in a home where decent HiFi was always present. The eldest (mid 30's) was very keen on his HiFi until he settled down with his partner, and now although he still has a passing interest, he's nowhere near as enthusiastic as he used to be.

My youngest (early 30's) started out with a multichannel system, but that has now gone and he has been quite into Sonos products, although he did recently show a passing interest in a decent pair of bluetooth speakers.

My point is, here we have two people from the younger generation who, whilst they grew up with good HiFi, their interest has waned.

So I'm not sure how it's possible to convince the younger generations that they need separates with all the complexity that entails, when they can get quite reasonable sound quality from a mobile phone and a pair of IEMs, and if they want sound for everyone they either just play it through their phone speakers, or some cheap bluetooth speaker which seems satisfactory to many of them.

As I said in my previous post above, those who are interested in more typically have a multichannel system (or sound bar) which covers all bases.

Personally, I think that stereo is dead to all but the hard core enthusiasts as found here on ASR.

Cheap portable bluetooth speakers now are easily better sound-wise than much more expensive Japanese consumer stereo sets sold in the 90s, especially for apartment dwellers like me.

If traditional stereo couldn't even differentiate themselves enough from the consumer mass market low-end on SQ, then of course they have nothing else left to stand on.

 

[Theta]

Cheap portable bluetooth speakers now are easily better sound-wise than much more expensive Japanese consumer stereo sets sold in the 90s

Wrong:
Better? not by a long shot.
As good? Not even close.
Does Audi really differentiate from mass a market Toyota? For someone like me, the answer is no, because I am only interested in transportation, for a car enthusiast the difference is quite large.

 

[restorer-john]

Wrong:
Better? not by a long shot.
As good? Not even close.
Does Audi really differentiate from mass a market Toyota? For someone like me, the answer is no, because I am only interested in transportation, for a car enthusiast the difference is quite large.

It was sarcasm. He just forgot the '/s'.

Don't take it seriously -there's nobody on earth that could be that uninformed, ignorant, or plain stupid.