Bricks List: 36V & 48V Power Supplies (for Fosi, Aiyima etc.)

[restorer-john]

BUT...I have this power supply I could try on it....

That's a cool cold war era look power supply. I like it.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Just ordered a Mean Well SDR-480-48 Power Supply (10amp 480 Watt) off eBay for $40. I noticed in the specs they explicitly state a peak load rating of 150% 740watt (for 3 seconds). I wonder what kind of peak loads these Audio brand power supplies could handle? I find it really tough to compare without load measurements.

This is why I use industrial SMPS units for any current requirement beyond 3-4 amps -- they are well-ventilated, run cool under the relatively intermittent current draw of audio gear -- such units with thermostatically controlled fans won't ever activate those fans under that sort of load -- and can be readily opened up for repair if they ever fail.

Probably yes, when you and your insurance assessor are sifting through the charred remains of what was once your house...

I don't know how it works in Oz, but I have never heard of a U.S. insurance claim being rejected because some tiny device wasn't UL listed.

 

[restorer-john]

At least in the U.S. context, this is more myth than fact -- maybe it's true elsewhere, but hereabouts most abodes have dozens of uncertified items from extension cords to nightlights connected up to AC mains without any insurance consequences in the event of a mishap.

Have you ever needed to make a claim for an electrical fire?

Items left plugged in or turned on and unattended are grounds for denying claims, as are faulty, non-compliant or overloaded items. Insurance companies are evil- they try to get out of everything.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Have you ever needed to make a claim for an electrical fire?

Items left plugged in or turned on and unattended are grounds for denying claims, as are faulty, non-compliant or overloaded items. Insurance companies are evil- they try to get out of everything.

So, every wall wart in the U.S. without a UL mark is an insurance risk, including the one packed with my so-called "smartphone" from a major U.S. carrier, which has neither UL nor CE markings? An interesting supposition, John...

 

[Unbalanced]

I am pleasantly surprised to share that the 48V 5A supply used by Fosi and manufactured by Shenzhen JuYuanHai Electronic Co.,Ltd received ETL certification on 13-Nov-2023 (after the start of this thread). Fosi support obtained the cert and forwarded a copy to me. I am relieved and I hope some others are as well.

Where I live in Ontario Canada it is a legal requirement to have a safety certification recognized by the provincial Electrical Safety Authority for every device that connects to mains. I can't say that I paid all that much attention to the issue until a couple of years ago when I started shopping on AliExpress. However, it has been something I have paid attention to over the past year. I have found every product sold locally, even at dollar stores, to be certified. I have found about 90% of the items sold on AliExpress and external vendors on Amazon to lack safety certification. FWIW I have found the uncertified bricks tend to get hotter than those that are certified. Their main saving grace in most everyday use is that they are rarely operating at their full rated capacity for very long. When I load test them I run them at their rated capacity for at least two hours.

 

[restorer-john]

So, every wall wart in the U.S. without a UL mark is an insurance risk, including the one packed with my so-called "smartphone" from a major U.S. carrier, which has neither UL nor CE markings? An interesting supposition, John...

It will only get worse with all the lithium battery fires being caused by issues with chargers, incorrect non-compliant chargers. Scooters, power tools, cars etc.

I foresee a situation where all charging and storage of any devices with lithium iron cell technology (like your smartphone you mentioned) will need to be done in a "outhouse" style small charging building if you want contents and building insurance. A small brick with cement roof construction the size of a toilet- lockable metal door. Perhaps a sand innundation system to extinguish any fires that do start.

Insurance will become prohibitive otherwise. I lost count of all the high energy (capable of starting a fire) Li-ion batteries I have around the place. Not only are the cell packs containing a serious amount of energy, that energy can be released in a very short time. The chargers also need to put that energy back in ever shorter periods demanded by consumers. All that results in much higher currents at both ends, heating, and as we can see, very little concern for thermal considerations. Sealed electronics (plugpacks/SMPSs) are a just dumb idea, espeically really high current ones.

The number of fires we are seeing in rubbish trucks, sorting facilities, rubbish tips is a real issue. The batteries are essentially small, oxygen producing, self sustaining, thermal runaway firebombs.

 

[somebodyelse]

lithium iron cell technology

Presuming typo/autocorrect of 'lithium ion' rather than incomplete 'lithium iron phosphate' which is much less prone to self immolation but has lower energy density.

 

[restorer-john]

Presuming typo/autocorrect of 'lithium ion' rather than incomplete 'lithium iron phosphate' which is much less prone to self immolation but has lower energy density.

Yep.

I lost count of all the high energy (capable of starting a fire) Li-ion batteries I have around the place.

 

[Sokel]

At least in the U.S. context, this is more myth than fact -- maybe it's true elsewhere, but hereabouts most abodes have dozens of uncertified items from extension cords to nightlights connected up to AC mains without any insurance consequences in the event of a mishap.

There are a multitude of duly certified industrial power supplies, including name brand stuff, that have naked terminals carrying mains voltage, something that would disqualify them from certification as a standalone consumer product -- IMO that clearly implies different certification criteria for industrial subassemblies vs. consumer products.

One of my best friends (Europe) is a top dog in insurance and I can assure you it's their absolute delight to search and find such stuff so to avoid claims.
They think it's a given that they find something with all this cheapo stuff people get from Ali and elsewhere.

Furthermore,aside from certs,what's also illegal in Europe are devices that consume more than 0.5W doing nothing (as a stand-by state,not idle) .
People here claim that some of these bricks consume about 5-10W just plugging them to mains,doing nothing.

I would pay attention to all those stuff.

Edit:As a fun story (or not so fun) they refused claims cause they once found one of those stuff that keep drinks warm

 

[Roland68]

So, every wall wart in the U.S. without a UL mark is an insurance risk, including the one packed with my so-called "smartphone" from a major U.S. carrier, which has neither UL nor CE markings? An interesting supposition, John...

I don't think that an American manufacturer would deliver a power supply or charger in the USA without a certificate.
In the USA, too, the person who places an electronic device on the market is responsible. It doesn't matter whether it's the shop on the corner or whether you yourself are the person who places it on the market because you ordered the device directly from Aliexpress.
If such an unapproved device is legally identified as the cause of a fire, any insurance company will probably be able to successfully defend itself against payment. If it involves building damage in the 7 or 8-digit range, or even personal injury, I don't want to be responsible, especially because of the legal consequences.

Personally, I don't care at all; all my devices are disconnected from the power supply when I leave the house or go to sleep.

 

[Sokel]

If it involves building damage in the 7 or 8-digit range, or even personal injury, I don't want to be responsible, especially because of the legal consequences.

At such cases insurance goes as far as searching people's photos on Facebook and Instagram to find probable causes for denial based on uncertified devices,bad electrical practices,etc.
@restorer-john said they're evil and I want to add that this is an understatement.

They have an enormous database that they share worldwide about all kinds of stuff,and consumer habits is key to that,based on clients net-worth,etc.
You simply can't win if they can prove stuff.

(first thing they look for are loaded multi-sockets,they are amongst the first suspects starting a fire)

 

[restorer-john]

At such cases insurance goes as far as searching people's photos on Facebook and Instagram to find probable causes for denial based on uncertified devices,bad electrical practices,etc.
@restorer-john said they're evil and I want to add that this is an understatement.

They have an enormous database that they share worldwide about all kinds of stuff,and consumer habits is key to that,based on clients net-worth,etc.
You simply can't win if they can prove stuff.

I had a girlfriend back in the day, very high up in a large insurance company here in Australia and the stories I heard (anonymised of course) and the methods they employed shocked me. That was until I wanted to claim and luckily I was able to ensure my claim went through "smoothly".

 

[Roland68]

There are a multitude of duly certified industrial power supplies, including name brand stuff, that have naked terminals carrying mains voltage, something that would disqualify them from certification as a standalone consumer product -- IMO that clearly implies different certification criteria for industrial subassemblies vs. consumer products.

The bare connections on so-called industrial power supplies are generally not a problem, as the same applies here: the person who connects it is also responsible for the correct connection. Otherwise, ovens, ceramic/induction hobs, lamps, etc. would not be allowed to be sold. Not all devices that you can buy have a plug connection.
Perhaps you should take a look at the 3D printer, various 3D and CNC and DIY areas, where millions of such power supplies are sold individually or in a kit every year.
Here too, everyone who operates these devices is responsible for themselves.

 

[Lux_ury]

In part the official bricks are safe, but in Europe we have an issue with aftermarket chargers on electric scooters citing electrical fires. Usually over charging lithium batteries without thermal cut outs or decent voltage regulators built into the chargers, but all in the name of cost cutting.
I'm using a really heavy 48v 10amp designed to power two amps, but doesn't work because of the feedback so using two bricks defeats the point of clean noiseless efficiency, but like most things work arounds.Im still at a loss why ASR didn't test the amps with one PSU?

 

[somebodyelse]

Furthermore,aside from certs,what's also illegal in Europe are devices that consume more than 0.5W doing nothing (as a stand-by state,not idle) .
People here claim that some of these bricks consume about 5-10W just plugging them to mains,doing nothing.

True for most devices, although there is an exception for devices maintaining a network connection while in standby. I've called out some of these apparent violations before. California has a similar rule for efficiency and standby power for PSUs.

 

[Roland68]

In general and to everyone, could we please keep batteries and chargers out of this thread? It's a completely different topic with different problems and completely off topic.

Im still at a loss why ASR didn't test the amps with one PSU?

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to saddle @amirm with such tests. And I say that because I know about such stress tests and know how high the requirements are. Devices, systems, safety devices, extraction devices, extinguishing systems, etc. We're talking about 5-6-digit investments here.
It would take an immense amount of time, because in order to make meaningful statements, the usual stress tests, overload tests and additional long-term tests with simulated loads corresponding to audio amplifiers would have to be carried out.
As there are thousands of other interesting devices and speakers that could be tested...

Two points make the whole thing even more pointless for me. Especially with the power supplies, where it would be interesting, you don't know whether you'll get the same power supply with your next order. Components or even the entire circuit board in the housing could have been changed in the same way.

Maybe there are users on ASR to whom these tests could be outsourced?

 

[Count Dacula]

That's a cool cold war era look power supply. I like it.

I got it instead of a switching power supply for DACs, and specifically for overdriving the voltage....that was fun for about a day. Now it seems prime for the mini D amps, really a more effective application of that smooth DC. I use the D amps with switching supplies for power savings on 24/7, but I'm willing to go back to the dark side.

Those units are on EBay pretty cheap, like $50 probably worth it. I'll get the details off it if anyone wants, I had mine like 10 years. I admit i was using it partly for show....better than some fake vacuum tubes.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

One of my best friends (Europe) is a top dog in insurance and I can assure you it's their absolute delight to search and find such stuff so to avoid claims.
They think it's a given that they find something with all this cheapo stuff people get from Ali and elsewhere.

Furthermore,aside from certs,what's also illegal in Europe are devices that consume more than 0.5W doing nothing (as a stand-by state,not idle) .
People here claim that some of these bricks consume about 5-10W just plugging them to mains,doing nothing.

I would pay attention to all those stuff.

Edit:As a fun story (or not so fun) they refused claims cause they once found one of those stuff that keep drinks warm

That's operation in obvious bad faith on the part of that insurer. Consumers would love to know which insurer your friend works for so that they can avoid this bad faith business. Insurance is always a balancing act but insurers in the US are pushing hard on the "screw you" aspect of their business models in recent years and I predict the worst offenders will go defunct as consumers reject them and competitors provide better terms and good faith service.

Also, I suspect that some posts here about the safety of these power bricks are made simply to undermine these Class D amps coming from China. Add a little fear to the conversations where possible to sow doubt about these products.

Many thousands of homes in the US are old enough so that their entire electrical systems are out of date and out of code. There are plenty living in the US who still have knob and wire systems in the walls. There are millions of devices with old cords, cracked sockets, loose internal connections, etc. etc.. There are millions of internal wires running in houses that have been nicked, soaked, chewed on by squirrels, etc. Small Li-Ion units are plugged in by the literal millions. The failure rates are infinitesimally small for all of these gadgets.

One thing I know is that I'm much more comfortable living with Chinese power bricks than some of the old Class A and Class AB amps I've had in the house.

 

[Count Dacula]

Yep.

Here we go..... throw some salt water on it!

 

[Sokel]

That's operation in obvious bad faith on the part of that insurer. Consumers would love to know which insurer your friend works for so that they can avoid this bad faith business. Insurance is always a balancing act but insurers in the US are pushing hard on the "screw you" aspect of their business models in recent years and I predict the worst offenders will go defunct as consumers reject them and competitors provide better terms and good faith service.

Also, I suspect that some posts here about the safety of these power bricks are made simply to undermine these Class D amps coming from China. Add a little fear to the conversations where possible to sow doubt about these products.

Many thousands of homes in the US are old enough so that their entire electrical systems are out of date and out of code. There are plenty living in the US who still have knob and wire systems in the walls. There are millions of devices with old cords, cracked sockets, loose internal connections, etc. etc.. There are millions of internal wires running in houses that have been nicked, soaked, chewed on by squirrels, etc. Small Li-Ion units are plugged in by the literal millions. The failure rates are infinitesimally small for all of these gadgets.

One thing I know is that I'm much more comfortable living with Chinese power bricks than some of the old Class A and Class AB amps I've had in the house.

I should out him,I know,we tell him in the company that we love him but we don't like him
He's now into the insurances that insurance ships and other insurance companies,so people are safe

Seriously now,bad faith is literally their normal business model,insurance has faced every scam in the book,multiple times,they know.
They are educated by the very best in scam and having good faith is not useful.

When it comes to law,they are worst than lawyers and they usually have some of the best in their pay-roll.And they have pushed hard themselves for some laws to pass.You don't want to be on the other side if you're about to claim.
All about what you said about older houses,etc is true and sadly in such cases the insurance fee goes up to points it may not be sane to do it,even if the law forces you in some occasions,same as with the energy certifications these days.

About amps,not all of them are uncertified and some of the bricks are by multinational companies already pre-certified,just made in Asia,like lots of stuff.
And lots of them are sold by shops (online or otherwise) located in Europe (and US I presume) so the responsibility falls on the importers.

So no,it's not about undermining them.It's about time to take the responsibility and face the same market conditions as sellers like the rest of the world and not cut corners out of the stuff that matters (I'm talking about the uncertified ones) .If your A or AB or whatever class amps comply with safety and EMC standards,ESD precautions,etc while others don't,the paranoid me would keep the former.But that's only me (who also has class D amps as long as others)