Bookshelf versus center channel speaker. Advice or old thread?

[2Sunny]

I'm sure this must have been discussed previously, but my minimal searches failed to find anything beyond a short discussion from a year ago of MTM versus bookshelf. I'm building a dedicated audio/home theater and will have room for placing a bookshelf in front rather than a center channel and based on directivity graphs that seems the better way to go if it is an option. I'm just wondering if there are any cons to going with a quality bookshelf versus a dedicated center.

In my specific case I'm considering an Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX bookshelf as an alternative to the Horizon V2 center.

 

[anotherhobby]

The 3-way center channels with proper tweet/mid alignment (vertical or coaxial) such as the KEF center channels, the Philharmonic HT Center, the Revel C208, and some others are can be excellent center channel speakers that don't suffer from the same problem as the ones that have the mids to the sides of the tweeter. The Horizon V2 center you are asking about falls into this camp. I would also take most of these 3-way center channel designs over a 2-way bookshelf.

 

[Oddball]

Not sure what happened to your Revel 228s. 426 center is perfect match for those especially if procured at 50% discount that happens more often than people think.

Once you get into standard bookshelves it limits the options for bass management that are getting more and more advanced. Dirac ART for example is first from Dirac that does not operate on crossover basis, but on basis of what speakers can support. The lower the better.

In your other posts I noticed that your budget is flexible and like to experiment so building a more capable LCR line is something I would recommend in these circumstances.

 

[JATC]

The only time I personally found a bookshelf to work as a center is when it matched the left and right speaker and they were all placed vertically at the same height. I ran the Sierra LX's as my LCR for a little over a year and it worked great However, I wouldn't want to sacrifice dynamic output by using a bookshelf speaker as a center if my mains were more capable.

 

[2Sunny]

I asked the same question on Ascend's forum and got an answer from the owner that I think is fairly definitive:

Not even a close comparison in this case. The Horizon, including the V2 version, is far superior to even the LX bookshelf standing upright. For a home theater system, you want the best possible center channel that you can fit and afford. As good as the LX are, they can not compete with any of our Horizon versions when it comes to dynamics, midrange detail and clarity, and efficiency.

 

[Ellebob]

Then you should use 3 horizons for the LCR.

 

[Looneybomber]

In general, the more drivers you have that operate over a limited bandwidth (1 way, 2 way, 3, etc), the less stress is placed on each, the greater your overall radiating surface area, and thus the greater output potential. If a 2way bookshelf gets loud enough for your needs, there’s no reason why you couldn’t use one…or even five in a 5.1 system I had many years ago.

An MTM has the potential for greater output than an equivalent bookshelf but the vertical orientation of the drivers in the bookshelf is the better design. Which is better for your needs depends upon how loud you listen. The bookshelf, with its superior horizontal off axis dispersion, may be a nonstarter if you really like it loud.

This has nothing to do with sound quality. That is a different discussion.

 

[Looneybomber]

I asked the same question on Ascend's forum and got an answer from the owner that I think is fairly definitive:

Are you surprised that a person who would receive monitory gains from selling a more expensive speaker would suggest a speaker at twice the price?

 

[mj30250]

Are you surprised that a person who would receive monitory gains from selling a more expensive speaker would suggest a speaker at twice the price?

That doesn't strike me as Ascend's MO at all. I've seen Dave suggest less expensive speakers to forum users when a particular use case doesn't appear to justify the more premium options.

And as I own both a Horizon and the LX bookshelves, I would fully agree that a Horizon would make for a more capable center speaker (especially the ELX), particularly when pushing higher volumes. The best case scenario would be three ELX towers across the front stage. For a dedicated theater room, that could be feasible.

 

[2Sunny]

Are you surprised that a person who would receive monitory gains from selling a more expensive speaker would suggest a speaker at twice the price?

It may be very naive of me, but my impression of David is that he would give the answer he honestly believes so I don't think his answer has any selfishness element at all, but again that could be me being overly naive.

I also think that there is some logic to the idea that center channel speakers are designed slightly different from other speakers given that they will primarily be used in a home theater and 99% of what they do is reproduce dialogue which I guess is a partial answer to my original question.

 

[mj30250]

It may be very naive of me, but my impression of David is that he would give the answer he honestly believes so I don't think his answer has any selfishness element at all, but again that could be me being overly naive.

I also think that there is some logic to the idea that center channel speakers are designed slightly different from other speakers given that they will primarily be used in a home theater and 99% of what they do is reproduce dialogue which I guess is a partial answer to my original question.

The majority of center speakers are designed differently because they have to account for the limited space available in most domestic rooms where furniture and TVs often exist. As such they are often compromised in some way. As I mentioned above, as excellent as the Horizon is, replacing it with an equivalent tower speaker (if space allowed) would likely offer better performance, if even just slightly.

 

[Looneybomber]

I also think that there is some logic to the idea that center channel speakers are designed slightly different from other speakers given that they will primarily be used in a home theater and 99% of what they do is reproduce dialogue which I guess is a partial answer to my original question.

I don’t disagree. It’s very possible a designer wants to design a speaker to have a certain sound, and that’s fine. It’s part of the art of design. But, if the center was intentionally voiced differently than the other speakers within the same series, then they become less of a timbre match with the other speakers. I would hope, for the sake of folks buying speakers within the same series, that they’re voiced as identically as possible. Otherwise, what incentive do folks have with buying speakers within the same series? Solid arguments can be made for both sides of that.

 

[Looneybomber]

That doesn't strike me as Ascend's MO at all. I've seen Dave suggest less expensive speakers to forum users when a particular use case doesn't appear to justify the more premium options.

I’m not saying he is giving good/bad advice. I’m not saying one speaker is better/worse than the other - the more expensive speaker may very well be the better option of the two for this use case. I’m only saying I’m not surprised a person who makes money off of a more expensive speaker is also recommending a more expensive speaker. Am I wrong? Should I be surprised a person would want to make more money?

 

[kyuu]

I also think that there is some logic to the idea that center channel speakers are designed slightly different from other speakers given that they will primarily be used in a home theater and 99% of what they do is reproduce dialogue which I guess is a partial answer to my original question.

The center channel in any multichannel movie track is responsible for aor more than just the dialogue. It's generally, in fact, the most heavily used channel in the entire mix. That's why you generally want one that can handle dynamics without distortion. Combine that with the common requirement to fit in a limited space under a TV and you end up with the (overly) maligned toppled MTM.

If you want to avoid the directivity problems due to the lobing between the woofers, best thing to do is move up to a 3-way design. Those tend to take up more space and be much more expensive, of course.