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Bookshelf speakers near a wall

radix

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Hello,

I'm looking for some bookshelf speakers (they could be pretty big) that actually go on a bookshelf next to a wall. This is for a living room sized area, so listening is over a wide field and generally 2 - 4m away. For aesthetic reasons, I'm trying to avoid a floor standing.

I was thinking of the R3, but those are rear ported, and I'm worried that if they are only 3 - 5 cm from the rear wall it will not do well. I have a minidsp shd + benchmark amp for the system, so some correction is possible.

Would I do better with a front-ported speaker like a JBL 43xx or one of the JBL "L"s? I could fit up to a 4349. I know the 4349 has mixed reviews here, given the price.

Or is there something else I'm missing?

I was planning on 2 subs (svs 3000 micro) to go with the R3. Perhaps I would not need those so much with a 4349?

I already have the amps, so I am not looking for a powered speaker here.

Or, I could toss in the towel and go with a front-ported tower in a different spot. It'd still be near a wall. e.g. a Revel F2xx or a Salk.

Marc
 

Midwest Blade

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Focal has some front ported bookshelf speakers which may be worth taking a look. Generally good performers.
 

HiFidFan

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I was about to recommend KH 310, before I saw that you don't want actives.
 

Beershaun

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Elac dbr62 is the go to bookshelf recommendation around here. They have a front port. I love my pair.

I am envious of your DAC/amp setup. That is exactly what I want to get to power my elac dbr62+svs sb-2000 setup someday. :)
 

NiagaraPete

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I have a beautiful pair of Linn Sara 9's that were designed for near wall and no ports to deal with :)
 

Ata

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Since you are eventually getting a sub the worst part of the room interactions will be taken care of, and you can plug the ports without worrying about the less impactful lower bass. Going with a lesser speaker will not only be more hassle and expense, but you will almost certainly lose out on raw (pre-EQ) and final (post-EQ) sound quality.

My LS50 Metas are 10cm from a boundary wall and 30cm from back wall and REW measurements are OK, a bit of frequency and ideally timing correction leads to brilliant sound (and post-EQ measurements). Ports are half-plugged, as per manufacturers specs, sub crossed at 100Hz and placed in the ideal centre between the speakers, on the floor.
 
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radix

radix

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Since you are eventually getting a sub the worst part of the room interactions will be taken care of, and you can plug the ports without worrying about the less impactful lower bass. Going with a lesser speaker will not only be more hassle and expense, but you will almost certainly lose out on raw (pre-EQ) and final (post-EQ) sound quality.

This makes sense. I also looked at the R3 manual about the plugs and see there are 2 different options I can try.

As I would be plugging the lower end, the UBR62 might be a consideration at $1200. Anyway, I think it will be the R3.
 

Beershaun

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This makes sense. I also looked at the R3 manual about the plugs and see there are 2 different options I can try.

As I would be plugging the lower end, the UBR62 might be a consideration at $1200. Anyway, I think it will be the R3.
Not the ubr62. The debut reference 6.2 it scored better in Amirs tests and is half the price.
 

KMO

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General guidelines I've seen are that port against a wall isn't necessarily a problem, but the distance to the wall should be at least the port diameter to not interfere with its tuning. 3-5cm seems too close.

I guess fully bunging would avoid the problem. Otherwise I think bunging or not depends both on room volume and wall distance. If you're in a big room you may want all the bass you can get, in which case close to the wall unbunged may be ideal.

Here's what the LS50 Meta's bung choices do - the effect should be roughly similar in the R3. This was the average of 7 speakers, 4 of which are quite close to the wall.

Bung effects.png


Maybe someone else can advise on what the effect of the wall/bookshelf placement is likely to be versus the CTA-2034 Predicted In-Room Response curve. I imagine the combo of full bung and placement roughly cancel out to get you back to PIR.
 

Frgirard

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I was thinking of the R3, but those are rear ported, and I'm worried that if they are only 3 - 5 cm from the rear wall it will not do well. I have a minidsp shd + benchmark amp for the system, so some correction is possible.
5 cm between the back of the speaker and the wall is enough.

The genelec 8351 for exemple can be flush mounted and has the port in the back.
https://www.genelec.com/accessories/8351-450b-flush-mount-kit.
 

Trell

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try a small acoustic panel behind each speaker

Back ported speakers needs some free space behind for the port to work as designed. How much space is required varies but Genelec says that a minimum of 5 cm is needed for their monitors.
 

theyellowspecial

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From what I understand, as long as sufficient space (diameter of port) is between speaker and wall, it's beneficial to have the speaker closer to wall to increase the SBIR, as higher SBIR is more easily treated.

Also, if using EQ there's no reason to plug the port because you're artificially reducing output that EQ can address more efficiently.
 
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radix

radix

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General guidelines I've seen are that port against a wall isn't necessarily a problem, but the distance to the wall should be at least the port diameter to not interfere with its tuning. 3-5cm seems too close.

From what I understand, as long as sufficient space (diameter of port) is between speaker and wall, it's beneficial to have the speaker closer to wall to increase the SBIR, as higher SBIR is more easily treated.

Thank you, that's useful. I had not thought about needing only 1 port diameter. Unfortunately, I have a 13.5" shelf and the speakers are 13", with maybe a 3" pipe. That's probably too much overhang for me (sorry to switch from metric to imperial on everyone).

Also, if using EQ there's no reason to plug the port because you're artificially reducing output that EQ can address more efficiently.

That's another thing I was not considering. Yes, I see how leaving it unplugged so it can be EQ'd might make sense. I was concerned because I've heard people say that the bass will get blurred by being too close to the wall, which I read as "cannot be fixed by adding more/less of it."

I found a deal on L82s and the R3 are the same price. I think I just need to buy both and return one. Or keep looking for other options. I have REW and Dirac (from the SHD) and a umic-2, so I can measure them from the common sitting positions and see which are least bad in the space. I'll pick up a few pieces of acoustic foam to see if I can make some minor alterations near the speakers that do not get vetoed due to aesthetics.

Another option might be something like the Focal 301/302 on-wall speaker. The 302 has pretty similar specs to the R3 (50-28 kHz @ -3 dB, 40 Hz @ -6 dB, 180W at 8 ohm. I don't know if Focal is fudging those specs -- the 302 looks much better than the Revel M10, at least on paper. These would not go on the bookshelf, but would be easier to integrate into the space than a tower.

I've used wall-mounts before (the B&O 3000), which I still use in a different room hooked up to a RoPieee/HiFiBerry.

Marc
 

Ultrasonic

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If the SHD will be used to high-pass filter the main speaker (which I definitely would) then the rear port is irrelevant as there won't be any meaningful output from it. The only reason I can think there might be a benefit from plugging it is if there is a high frequency resonance issue that this would damp.
 

KMO

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If the SHD will be used to high-pass filter the main speaker (which I definitely would) then the rear port is irrelevant as there won't be any meaningful output from it. The only reason I can think there might be a benefit from plugging it is if there is a high frequency resonance issue that this would damp.

Not sure that's correct, unless its a rather high crossover.

Not found graphs for the R3, but my graphs above and Amir's port measurement for the LS50 show port and woofer output being equal at 80Hz, unplugged. You'd want to plug it to get more from the woofer in the sub crossover region. (Woofer output drops when the port is resonating).
 

Ultrasonic

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Will the shelf place the speakers at ear-height?
 
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