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Bookshelf speakers for low volume & near-field listening?

q3cpma

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I think he would be better off simply by stating that the speakers are hand tuned to a sound signature that is adjusted against a stated known reference plus his subjective preferences and skip the gobbledygook.

If I’d found that speaker to sound great, then by all means. If it measures good, even better.

I’m not sure I understand the problem here.
You're right, I have little against people who just say they like some speakers. Personally, I prefer music to speakers, but that's simply not the same hobby.
 
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q3cpma

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A big part of the problem seems to stem from the perception that speakers are a form of digital technology when they are in fact analogue. Speakers are very imperfect when compared to even the worst DAC. Several orders of magnitude more imperfect.
Our hearing is forgiving enough that "perfect" speakers do exist; even if stuff like dispersion width/height is a matter of room/listening distance matching and preference.
The Harman school would probably strive for a flat response and make compromises elsewhere. The BBC school may prioritise the subjective reproduction of the human voice and is willing to make compromises in the freq response, directivity, etc.
Voice is a band limited signal like any other; the only truth is that we're more sensitive in that band. If your loudspeaker system has low linear distortion (flat frequency response and smooth directivity), low non-linear distortion (harmonic, IM and noise) and low timing distortion, it can reproduce everything. At that point the only obstacles are the recording (incl. circle of confusion), the room and the limitations of stereo (for most content).

Seriously, you're just talking about stuff you don't understand.
 

kotmj

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Our hearing is forgiving enough that "perfect" speakers do exist; even if stuff like dispersion width/height is a matter of room/listening distance matching and preference.

Voice is a band limited signal like any other; the only truth is that we're more sensitive in that band. If your loudspeaker system has low linear distortion (flat frequency response and smooth directivity), low non-linear distortion (harmonic, IM and noise) and low timing distortion, it can reproduce everything. At that point the only obstacles are the recording (incl. circle of confusion), the room and the limitations of stereo (for most content).

Seriously, you're just talking about stuff you don't understand.
Any place I can obtain the speakers you've developed?
 

kotmj

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No, honestly, I would love to hear the speakers you've developed. Why wouldn't I?

You can send me a personal message if you do not want to divulge the companies you've designed for.
 

redshift

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The "problem" is their use of various synonymous of accuracy in their marketing without publishing any data. If someone can't see anything wrong with this, I guess I should just give up on him.

Okay; then under what conditions will the speaker be expected to operate? It sure as hell won’t be in an anaechoic chamber, that is guaranteed.

So which room should we pick as the reference? Yours? Mine? Tooles? Amirs? Say yours, have you measured the frequency response and THD+N of your room? How will the speaker interact with your room as it actuate?

You see; the speaker interacts with the room and it is what you’ll experience as you listen to the music.

What is reasonable is to test a speaker towards a design spec. For example frequency response, THD+N and the usual bells and whistles of spinorama target responses that the speaker designer sets.

A “ruler flat” frequency response gives the same impression as the megapixel race with digital cameras.
 
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redshift

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I always used a slow cooker... lol. Used to evangelize about chain waxing on my old bike blog EcoVelo.

When the student got tired of chain gunk and wear, the teacher showed up albeit with some delay.

Yeah, chain waxing is obligatory stuff. I did 4 chains at a time when I used to commute some ~40km’s daily.
 

hawk01

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Hello ASR community, greetings from Japan!

I've been viewing this great site for some time now. Amir's reviews have put me into buying a Topping D70s and THX 789 for my Arya:).
Now i've developed a interest in speakers, and thought I might as well take the liberty to post something and ask for your kind advices!

The room I have for listening is quite small, somewhat 3.5m*3m. I only listen in relatively low volumes to avoid annoying my neighbours.
For now I own a 80W class D amp, a 10W tube amp, and a pair of Yamaha NS-B330 ($300, which i wish to replace with something nicer).

Budget wise anything less than $2000 will do.

From my very little research I found the Focal Chora 806, Elac Carina 243.4 and KEF LS59 Meta to fit my budget and also look pretty good:D.
Which one do your think would sound the best or could you suggest altervatives?

Thanks!

your most limiting factor is room size, not budget. you may well afford something like a KEF R3 or Revel M16 which i personally have and i can guarantee you that both will have generous amounts of bass to excite the modes your smallish size room. i agree going for the coaxial design for nearfield in which the KEF LS50 variants with their modest bass response should fit nicely.
 

kotmj

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your most limiting factor is room size, not budget. you may well afford something like a KEF R3 or Revel M16 which i personally have and i can guarantee you that both will have generous amounts of bass to excite the modes your smallish size room. i agree going for the coaxial design for nearfield in which the KEF LS50 variants with their modest bass response should fit nicely.
Because he will be playing at low volumes, there is the further requirement that the speakers do not sound soporific at low volumes.
 

Offler

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These are Elac DBR-62, hooked to NAD d3020v2 and then to PC over optical SPDIF. Room is about the size you described.

For near-field listening its absolutely great. I dont feel the need for subwoofer and they sound absolutely fantastic for music, games and movies as well. The only downside is they are rather big - they looked to be smaller from the photos, but its worth it.

P6070129.jpg
 

redshift

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These are Elac DBR-62, hooked to NAD d3020v2 and then to PC over optical SPDIF. Room is about the size you described.

For near-field listening its absolutely great. I dont feel the need for subwoofer and they sound absolutely fantastic for music, games and movies as well. The only downside is they are rather big - they looked to be smaller from the photos, but its worth it.

View attachment 140732

They look rather sweet in white/wood as well.

1626127892949.jpeg
 

q3cpma

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Okay; then under what conditions will the speaker be expected to operate? It sure as hell won’t be in an anaechoic chamber, that is guaranteed.

So which room should we pick as the reference? Yours? Mine? Tooles? Amirs? Say yours, have you measured the frequency response and THD+N of your room? How will the speaker interact with your room as it actuate?

You see; the speaker interacts with the room and it is what you’ll experience as you listen to the music.

What is reasonable is to test a speaker towards a design spec. For example frequency response, THD+N and the usual bells and whistles of spinorama target responses that the speaker designer sets.

A “ruler flat” frequency response gives the same impression as the megapixel race with digital cameras.
I suggest you become familar with loudspeaker research. To make it simple, direct sound is very important over the Schroeder frequency; in the nearfield, you can basically ignore most reflections (desk reflections still count) because of negligible level of reflected sound relative to direct.
What do you even mean by "THD of room"? A room has noise and modal issues, but THD?

The tl;dr if you don't want to spend time is: the best speakers in anechoic conditions are also the best in room and if you consider that you can use fine EQ, you just need good directivity and low distortion.
 
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redshift

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I suggest you become familar with loudspeaker research. To make it simple, direct sound is very important over the Schroeder frequency; in the nearfield, you can basically ignore most reflections (desk reflections still count) because of negligible level of reflected sound relative to direct.
What do you even mean by "THD of room"? A room has noise and modal issues, but THD?

The tl;dr if you don't want to spend time is: the best speakers in anechoic conditions are also the best in room.

Yeah, I’ll shove my lawnmower into the living room and crank it to full tilt with the muffler removed and for the sake of audiophile lingo; I’ll open a window to lift the veils and fumes of ignorance. Let’s think of it as I got an obscure taste of what makes good furniture.

Now; let’s make a measurement on your fave speaker in the sweet spot of your selection. Yup, exactly the same speakers that measures well in an anaechoic chamber.

How do you think the speakers and room will sound? Any extra THD+N on the anaechoic perfection of yours? No?
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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i was very worry to put the kef r7 in my small room, and the end the result was outstanding even more in low volume, my only concern is my neighborhood XD
 

dc655321

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How do you think the speakers and room will sound? Any extra THD+N on the anaechoic perfection of yours? No?

Ignoring the THD of a room nonsense (and it is nonsense), please explain what you think a flat anechoic acoustic response means in terms of fidelity. I'm genuinely curious...
 

redshift

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Ignoring the THD of a room nonsense (and it is nonsense), please explain what you think a flat anechoic acoustic response means in terms of fidelity. I'm genuinely curious...

It depends on the system, that is; how your room and speakers interact.

Remember that I can craft my “furniture” in such a way that your “ruler flat” speakers wouldn’t make any discernible signal on top of the racket my room and “furniture” “generates”.
 
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