Bluesound releases 2024 ICON streamer

[sapphari]

I think that is effectively the same solution we are describing. It's connecting the RCA ground of the Icon to the XLR ground (and the XLR ground is connected to the amp's ground once plugged into the amp). At least that's how I interpret it. That approach is cleaner IMO, but requires you to open up an XLR cable, which is a little bit more effort. It would be awesome if Bluesound supplied this modified XLR cable (doubt that will ever happen though).

 

[pjug]

I think that is effectively the same solution we are describing. It's connecting the RCA ground of the Icon to the XLR ground (and the XLR ground is connected to the amp's ground once plugged into the amp). At least that's how I interpret it. That approach is cleaner IMO, but requires you to open up an XLR cable, which is a little bit more effort. It would be awesome if Bluesound supplied this modified XLR cable (doubt that will ever happen though).

The question have is why isn't the XLR ground connected to the Node chassis? Is it because of some Node inputs making this a possible problem?

 

[pogo]

The question have is why isn't the XLR ground connected to the Node chassis?

There are also 'audiophile' power amplifiers (e.g. NAD) that do not require grounding and are therefore not susceptible to noise on the ground line.

 

[GXAlan]

How hard is it to open the case? It would be so much nicer to make the connection internally. I know... warranty. But geez it should have had that connection by design.

A lot of systems allow you to flip a switch to decide what to do. The technical standard is that XLR has no ground and you use the balanced differential transmission for your signal.

The question have is why isn't the XLR ground connected to the Node chassis? Is it because of some Node inputs making this a possible problem?

It’s a decision. If you look at Marantz and Denon and Yamaha, they use two prong power and just float XLR.

XLR pin 1 is supposed to be the chassis for shielding not for grounding, as I understand it. But it’s inconsistent.

 

[pjug]

A lot of systems allow you to flip a switch to decide what to do. The technical standard is that XLR has no ground and you use the balanced differential transmission for your signal.

It’s a decision. If you look at Marantz and Denon and Yamaha, they use two prong power and just float XLR.

XLR pin 1 is supposed to be the chassis for shielding not for grounding, as I understand it. But it’s inconsistent.

But still, what would be the harm in connecting XLR Pin 1 to the Node's chassis? Is it some of the inputs that might be connected and then another ground problem?

 

[pogo]

FYI the unbalanced inputs on my Audio Precision Analyzer by default are floating (not ground referenced). This helps a lot with ground loops although sometimes I get better results by connecting ground.

If your amp has not a floating ground capability/implementation (floating ground is the preferred grounding style for audiophiles), you can connect the XLR cable ground signal to the ground of the Icon (RCA, USB, ...).

 

[Rja4000]

I thought some were able to solve the problem by connecting XLR pin1 to the node's RCA shield without running a connection to ground

Just naive question:
Would connecting the ground from the USB plug work the same ?
Because cutting one side of a cheap USB cable and only using the ground wire to connect to the amp's ground (isolating the "live" one) seems easier...

 

[sapphari]

Ilkka on that Bluesound support thread suggests USB can be used but I haven't seen functional confirmation of that. The fix Ilkka showed there was via coax out (RCA).

 

[mikematrix]

I thought some were able to solve the problem by connecting XLR pin1 to the node's RCA shield without running a connection to ground. Isn't that what this shows? Is XLR Pin1 connected to the node's chassis or is that connection missing?

(from https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/28993783968151-NODE-Icon-XLR-issues)
View attachment 427899

In this case it uses the ground of the other device at the end of the XLR cable.
To know the other possible grounds you need a multimeter and test the continuity between the rca ground and the rest (usb, screws, etc...).
If it rings it's good.
Device unplugged of course.
Maybe the RJ45 cable could work too?

 

[rdytro]

There are also 'audiophile' power amplifiers (e.g. NAD) that do not require grounding and are therefore not susceptible to noise on the ground line.

So this is a common theme of bad design / lazy engineering in the Lenbrook Group is what you're saying?

 

[pogo]

The opposite is probably true, as it is less susceptible to interference.

 

[rdytro]

The opposite is probably true, as it is less susceptible to interference.

Then why do devices with these arrangements typically see so many issues (Icon case in point).

 

[GXAlan]

Then why do devices with these arrangements typically see so many issues (Icon case in point).

Sample bias.

Denon (Japan), Marantz and Yamaha have been doing 2 prong power with XLR for years. Audiophile “cheater plugs” are commonly discussed online, which essentially try to replicate what the Node Icon is doing but at potential greater safety risk than a device designed from the get go to not need an earth ground.

I suspect a common trend is Genelec’s and HypeX/Purifi amps are more popular and they do seem to be a common concern. Owners of McIntosh gear seem to have no issue with the mismatched 2 prong AC/3 prong AC scenario.

Mine is supposed to ship this week, so I will be able to share how it behaves with Meyer Sound audio gear.

 

[pogo]

Purifi amps are more popular and they do seem to be a common concern.

If you use a Purifi from NAD, you will not have the problem, i.e. you will have the maximum possible interference suppression.

 

[GXAlan]

If you use a Purifi from NAD, you will not have the problem, i.e. you will have the maximum possible interference suppression.

Yes. To be clearer, there has been an issue with Buckeye Amps and he uses HypeX and Purifi predominantly.

Obviously using HypeX and Purifi products from NAD are expected to work well. Same with HypeX and ICEamp products from Marantz.

I have a gut feeling that I will run into buzzing myself since I have had issues with Yamaha sources into my Meyer Sound gear, but will update the thread when my Node Icon arrives later this month.

 

[GXAlan]

Bluesound Node Icon im Test: Der beste Node aller Zeiten?

Der Streamer Bluesound Node ist ein HiFi-Dauerbrenner – der größere Node Icon will im Test auch in der Klasse über 1.000 Euro mithalten.

www.stereo.de

Finally public. Will edit with numbers.

Edit: SNR @ digital zero

Node Icon 113 dB
Wiim Ultra 107 dB

Distortion at - 9 dBFS
Node Icon 0.001%
WiiM Ultra 0.001%

It will be interesting to see Amir’s numbers, but at least for Stereo.de, the Node Icon measures better than the WiiM Ultra. That’s the first head to head measurement that I know of.

 

[pogo]

Edit: SNR @ digital zero

Node Icon 113 dB
Wiim Ultra 107 dB

Distortion at - 9 dBFS
Node Icon 0.001%
WiiM Ultra 0.001%

Eversolo DMP-A10
112dB
0.0052%

 

[pogo]

Bluesound strikes back - almost no alternative with Dirac Live

 

[ISchmidt]

Boxem Purifi user here. My Node Icon is connected balanced using microphone cable from Cordial: there is no hum, no interference, no nothing! Pure joy this combo!

 

[delamelon]

Boxem Purifi user here. My Node Icon is connected balanced using microphone cable from Cordial: there is no hum, no interference, no nothing! Pure joy this combo!

great! i have a Boxem too, i think i’ll switch my Eversolo to this Dirac Node!