Bluesound releases 2024 ICON streamer

[frdranger]

Pushed back to 15th here now.

Geez. Wonder if it's something Dirac related or not. I thought I read something earlier in this thread about maybe the finish on the units were bad?

 

[Scoobz1]

Let's hope they are better at delivering all the promised future functionality than the actual base launch product

 

[pogo]

QRONO dsd and QRONO d2a will hit the market in December 2024: Link

 

[pogo]

QRONO Technical White Paper: Link

 

[Siltech]

Has anyone that pre-ordered theirs receive theirs yet? I heard they were pushed back until December 10th.

Today is December 6, and I picked up my Bluesound Icon today. It was ready to be picked up yesterday, but went today. I live in Toronto, Canada.

I also have the Eversolo DMP-A8
I purchased the DMP-A8 four months ago. I’ll compare both units, beside each other. I’ll only compare as streamer, using analog out. In other words, I’ll be using internal dac and streaming with Tidal. This is the way I’m currently using my Eversolo DMP-A8…..See What Happens

4 PICTURES POSTED BELOW -
Top 2 are Bluesound Icon, new in unopened box
Bottom 2 ARE MY EVERSOLO DMP-A8

 

[darth]

Can someone with the device check if HDMI CEC works with this unit? As in volume/power control work via TV remote or Apple TV remote etc. when connected via its eARC. Thanks!

 

[pererpan]

Looks good but how is the sound?

 

[pogo]

If the QRONO Technical White Paper is to be believed, the Icon will stand out from its competitors. But that will be the case with Dirac Live at the latest. Let's see when the competitors adopts QRONO and/or Dirac Live.

 

[rdytro]

If the QRONO Technical White Paper is to be believed, the Icon will stand out from its competitors. But that will be the case with Dirac Live at the latest. Let's see when the competitors adopts QRONO and/or Dirac Live.

Re: QRONO, probably nobody outside the group that now owns it, besides perhaps Cyrus as they're using Blu.

 

[rdytro]

Geez. Wonder if it's something Dirac related or not. I thought I read something earlier in this thread about maybe the finish on the units were bad?

Dealer I spoke to said quality control issues. When I asked if software or hardware, he wouldn't specify.

 

[Siltech]

Dealer I spoke to said quality control issues. When I asked if software or hardware, he wouldn't specify.

This BLUESOUND Node Icon took a long time to come in the making. They want to make sure everything is as perfect as possible,

Some delays, but now everything is excellent as expected. ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE, NONE.

They have to make and ship a lot of ICON units to dealers now, World Wide. Thousands of units.

The wait for customers will be appreciated, once they receive there units. Some stores in the Toronto area received some. I know one store that ordered 20 and received 3 so far. BACK ORDERED

NOW HAVE TO CATCH UP ON WORLD WIDE DEMAND…….PRE ORDERS…

This will be a great product, and reviews will be great. Probably will win several awards in the World. Thank you, BLUESOUND

 

[Galliardist]

QRONO Technical White Paper: Link

Oh.

Where to start? Maybe with Kunchur in the references. Is this what a company with Bob Stuart still consulting, has come to?

Let's pull out a few quotes.

Yet, despite these advancements, there was something about digital audio that was less engaging, less lifelike than pure analogue audio.

Uh huh.

Imagine if your car started bouncing up and down before you hit a bump in the road!

... let's complete the analogy..."but you couldn't feel it". Anyway, it seems that they use a filter without pre-ringing in all of their later diagrams.

To design better filters, MQA Labs started by concentrating on the actual spectrum of natural sounds and music which are the signals we want to listen to.

This reads like old MQA. The triangle. They decide what music is. Of course, the vast majority of music did sit inside the MQA triangle. Still...

Most DAC chips also use the same filters for inputs at different sample rates. This often means they are unnecessarily aggressive with high resolution inputs of 88.2kHz and higher. By contrast, QRONO d2a filters are optimised for the musical spectrum of each input sample rate. In all cases, they preserve musicality but ensure there are no ultrasonic outputs that could damage downstream equipment like amplifiers and loudspeakers.

I'll admit to being confused by this passage. What do they mean by "musical spectrum". What is "too aggressive"? Are they claiming to process the ultrasonic element of a high bitrate signal while conventional DACs don't? Are they claiming not to process ultrasonic outputs to protect downstream equipment? Are they processing ultrasonic signal then throwing it away? Is this a dig at DSD? - but why then talk about 88.2kHZ which is obviously PCM? And what do they mean by "musicality" anyway? What If I send movie sound through this DAC - is it not designed for that, or does it make all the normal sounds or special effects more musical?

Still, this part is new. I don't remember any evidence that they used different filters for different bitrates in old MQA as they do here.

Finally, we use a technique called noise shaping to mask any low-level imaging in the ultrasonic region with benign noise. This noise also helps improve the performance of the DAC chip. The shaped noise maintains the signal’s dynamic range in the audible band but reduces the number of bits required to represent the signal. This means we can use the most linear region of the DAC chip’s dynamic range. [5]

So reference 5 is to a paper about dither. Given the fuss about this with old MQA, one might expect a White Paper on a replacement to be a bit more honest and tell us how much dither they are using, at least.

Each QRONO d2a implementation is specifically tuned for the DAC chip in that product.

They claimed that for old MQA as well. I'm not sure that was really the case then. Still, let's see.

Going backwards for the last quote...

One of the most surprising recent discoveries in neuroscience has been the precision of our hearing when discriminating sounds with fine time detail. We can perceive distinct auditory signals as close together as 7 microseconds [1-3]. This precision was critical for early humanity’s survival. As it applies to music perception, it provides the fine texture, clear delineation and spatial impression of musical instruments. Audio processing that fails to preserve these time details will blur sounds together.


Much of what you will read later in this white paper is not new information. But the fact we can perceive sounds as close together as 7 microseconds is new information. ...

Note that references 1-3 are used for this "new information" claim. The references date from 2003-2010. So, no matter whether there is any truth in the quoted papers, all three are pretty much 15 years old, and predate old MQA by 6 years. Calling it "new information" is a stretch. If I remember correctly, older information tells us something quite different. I must go and watch Monty again!

You'll forgive me for thinking, though, that there is nothing new or special in any of this until proven. It reads like they've taken a chunk of what they wrote about MQA and thrown it in this document. There are no real details of what they are doing, and the claim of audibility is not backed up by solid testing.

Before you'll get a yes or no from me on QRONO, I want to see independent testing. There's not enough in this document to call it either way, but there's enough to make me suspicious, after what we got from original MQA.

 

[Scoobz1]

I had no idea what MQA was and how controversial it was until i read this search, included here for the benefit of others
AI Overview
Learn more

Master Quality Authenticated (MQA) has been controversial in hi-fi for a number of reasons, including:

• Sound quality
  Some say that MQA's audio signal processing and lossy compression can degrade sound quality. Others say that MQA sounds worse than other formats in blind listening tests.
  
  
• Lossless format
  Some say that MQA was oversold as a lossless format, and that it's difficult to rebuild the original audio exactly as recorded.
  
  
• Hardware and software
  MQA files require special hardware or software to play, which could reduce incentives for companies to produce compatible products.
  
  
• Licensing fees
  Some say that licensing fees for MQA can negatively impact music recording and playback businesses.
  
  
• Bandwidth restrictions
  Some say that lossless formats are better for people without bandwidth restrictions.

MQA is a digital audio format developed by Meridian Audio to reproduce the sound of original studio recordings. It compresses high-resolution audio into smaller files suitable for streaming.

 

[Chester]

This BLUESOUND Node Icon took a long time to come in the making. They want to make sure everything is as perfect as possible,

Some delays, but now everything is excellent as expected. ABSOLUTELY NO ISSUE, NONE.

They have to make and ship a lot of ICON units to dealers now, World Wide. Thousands of units.

The wait for customers will be appreciated, once they receive there units. Some stores in the Toronto area received some. I know one store that ordered 20 and received 3 so far. BACK ORDERED

NOW HAVE TO CATCH UP ON WORLD WIDE DEMAND…….PRE ORDERS…

This will be a great product, and reviews will be great. Probably will win several awards in the World. Thank you, BLUESOUND

Do you work for Bluesound?

 

[pogo]

MQA is a digital audio format

QRONO/FOQUS is not about an digital audio format!
The MQA format should not be discussed here.

 

[AdrianusG]

/FOQUS is not about an digital audio format!
The MQA format should not be discussed here.

"The MQA format should not be discussed here."

On that we fully agree, it shouldn't be discussed at all (it should have stayed dead!) but it definitely doesn't deserve a comeback with yet another new fancy name, so hopefully this QRONO is really something entirely different, but THEY have to proof this with measurements instead of words.

 

[Siltech]

MQA is not QRONO technology…No…

QRONO TECHNOLOGY IS AT A TOTALLY DIFFERENT LEVEL…….HIGHER. I believe this has a patent

Just Google and read Absolute Sound, and What Hi-Fi writings.

I find Absolute Sound write up fascinating, from December 5th-2024.

Quote from Absolute Sound…
“The QRONO technologies can enable time performance that exceeds the best analogue systems. The audible improvement is immediate”

Design team are incredibly intelligent.
Competition may be little nervous. 100%

 

[StefanSweden]

Let’s try our very best to not allow this thread about a new Bluesound Streamer to slide into derailing conversation about MQA. To mention or confirm that it supports MQA is fine. But if you want to hash out what value, if any, MQA presents please start a separate thread for that purpose. Just the mere mention of MQA can cause a thread to self destruct. So we are pleading with you to please take further examination of this topic to a separate thread.

Thank you for your cooperation, understanding and support.

 

[pogo]

Competition may be little nervous.

But it doesn't really have to be. They can also implement these new technologies and we will certainly see more products outside the BluOS world soon.

 

[pjug]

Quote from Absolute Sound…
“The QRONO technologies can enable time performance that exceeds the best analogue systems. The audible improvement is immediate”

Ha ha, that is not too hard. Unless you don't think wow and flutter have to do with time.