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Bluesound Node Review (Streamer)

dshreter

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It's objectively not a great product. I'm sure it's a product that allows people to enjoy their music. That's not really a useful benchmark, is it?
If it allows people to conveniently enjoy their music (and AV via HDMI ARC), and it does so with fidelity that is imperceptibly different from the products with superior measurements, then why not?
 

Golfx

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So perhaps confirmation bias of current owners is producing these supportive posts. I too subcomb to this human trait on my current products. But now that this member provided sample (not hand picked by manufacturer) tested poorly, I am dissuaded from purchasing. Hence what a perfect motive for Lenbrook to fix its initial interface to be pleasantly easy instead of frustratingly disappointing. Which is the only leverage we have against arrogantly detached companies.
 

goofball

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So perhaps confirmation bias of current owners is producing these supportive posts. I too subcomb to this human trait on my current products. But now that this member provided sample (not hand picked by manufacturer) tested poorly, I am dissuaded from purchasing. Hence what a perfect motive for Lenbrook to fix its initial interface to be pleasantly easy instead of frustratingly disappointing. Which is the only leverage we have against arrogantly detached companies.
It's very easy to s*** all over a product...I've done it myself both privately and in public, and for products that cost a hell of a lot more than a streamer box. It's a lot harder to provide details that might improve the situation for both the customer and the product developer.

From another poster: "It's not his box to open and not his problem to diagnose. The answer is that they are not designed or engineered to perform well. That's clearly an issue Bluesound are aware of but I'm sure it meets the brief and BoM."

Was there an attempt to contact Bluesound? They are not designed or engineered to perform well? That's a rather sweeping statement. How do you know Bluesound is even aware of the problem? Maybe the test sample is broken somehow. Without opening the box or contacting the company, there is no way to know.

Now this is not to defend Bluesound...every product in the world could use improvement and theirs is no exception. As for the original quote about arrogantly detached companies, you won't know the real story about Lenbrook until someone tries to talk to them. That's one of the big reasons why product reviewers contact the manufacturer before publishing...it provides a chance to fix a situation.
 

Timcognito

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I still say the vast majority Node owners are not confused and not having buyers remorse. Maybe my classic (2003) Audio Research amp and Thiel speakers are not good enough to let me hear how ****** my Node sounds on my reference system. I don't have buyers remorse about buying any of them. Maybe my my golden ears have turned to brass. I was however enjoying all my music, from Vault2 server, Qobuz streams and radio broadcasts from a wide variety sources and my wife her music and science blogs, all with a touch of a tablet from one box supplying analog out.

Amir measured and I believe what he said. Lenbrook did not do their job or took a shortcut or ? The Node been highly acclaimed for what it does by many reviewers in owners here and damned with faint praise by some like MF at Twittering Machines, and flat rejected by ASR's founder. I just fixed mine with a Topping E30 $150. Now I've convinced myself it sounds better, I know it tests better. Hope Lenbrook is reading what people are posting.

I think I'll post more over at A Call for Humor.
 

Jimbob54

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It's very easy to s*** all over a product...I've done it myself both privately and in public, and for products that cost a hell of a lot more than a streamer box. It's a lot harder to provide details that might improve the situation for both the customer and the product developer.

From another poster: "It's not his box to open and not his problem to diagnose. The answer is that they are not designed or engineered to perform well. That's clearly an issue Bluesound are aware of but I'm sure it meets the brief and BoM."

Was there an attempt to contact Bluesound? They are not designed or engineered to perform well? That's a rather sweeping statement. How do you know Bluesound is even aware of the problem? Maybe the test sample is broken somehow. Without opening the box or contacting the company, there is no way to know.

Now this is not to defend Bluesound...every product in the world could use improvement and theirs is no exception. As for the original quote about arrogantly detached companies, you won't know the real story about Lenbrook until someone tries to talk to them. That's one of the big reasons why product reviewers contact the manufacturer before publishing...it provides a chance to fix a situation.
Come on, it performs like the last 2 iterations and not far from the spec of the DAC chip I believe. Let's not go down the "it might not be working properly" line.
 

Jim Matthews

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I just fixed mine with a Topping E30 $150. Now I've convinced myself it sounds better, I know it tests better. Hope Lenbrook is reading what people are posting.

That's entirely the point. Your $150 DAC costs pittance to make and The Smurfs opted for cheaper, still. I have exactly the same experience - using any decent DAC is an appreciable improvement.

For $550 retail it (The Node) can be and should perform better.
 

Laserjock

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Show me something that does it all like The NODE with better DAC and I’ll buy it!
What’s the next best thing and cost?
 

tjf

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That's entirely the point. Your $150 DAC costs pittance to make and The Smurfs opted for cheaper, still. I have exactly the same experience - using any decent DAC is an appreciable improvement.

For $550 retail it (The Node) can be and should perform better.



OK, so to summarize....(apologies for logic-fails and tortuous grammar):

1) Newest Node is shown to have sub par analog output measurements -- but then very good measured performance once a competent DAC is connected to it's SPDIF output and tested...

2) Then -- value judgements based on cost vs. measured performance -- with attendant "assumptions" of audible performance limitations due to sub par measurements -- so poor measured performance + "Higher Cost" of the Node makes it an overpriced streamer compared to "D.I.Y." SBC/streamer/DAC options one can purchase for much less -- but are far from an easy "turn-key" setup and use...

3) The "New Node defenders camp" strike back with: "U.I. ease-of-use"/"mature U.I. platform"/no "Flashing SD Cards"/no setting I/O configurations on web U.I.'s, etc., etc., -- and also touting various integrations -- Roon, Airplay, etc.....

4) Meanwhile: No specificity of what the supposed subjective audible performance limitations would actually be using the analog outputs...along with no speculations of just what "audible" improvement(s) the addition of a "competent DAC" would actually produce...

5) Based on those same assumptions of degraded performance due to PCM5242, etc.... the further judgement of even poorer value for having to buy a modestly priced DAC (E30, et al) to achieve an (assumed) higher subjective listening experience makes it even poorer value at say -- $700-$800 for the set...

Is this pretty much where we're at now re: the new Node?

BTW -- I really did appreciate this review, and I really hope someone can send Amir a Sonos Port and an Amazon Echo Link to get the same scrutiny as the Node has just received!
 
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RadioBuddha

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Show me something that does it all like The NODE with better DAC and I’ll buy it!
What’s the next best thing and cost?

That's what I'm trying to find, possibly the Yamaha WXC-50 ($350), I saw a Youtube review on it, they stated that the sound quality is good if you use the analog outputs, although those same reviewers thought the Bluesound Node 2i's sound quality was great, better than the Yamaha, they did not like the Sonos Port at all.

I need Spotify Connect, Airplay, and an app that gives you every possible streaming radio station, the Sonos App seems to have every possible streaming service integrated into it, perhaps the Bluesound app does as well.

If you go in the Raspberry Pi direction, the Picoreplayer OS combined with the Logitech Media Server seems to present a wide range of options while having an interface that looks almost comparable to a Sonos interface.
 

dshreter

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That's what I'm trying to find, possibly the Yamaha WXC-50 ($350), I saw a Youtube review on it, they stated that the sound quality is good if you use the analog outputs, although those same reviewers thought the Bluesound Node 2i's sound quality was great, better than the Yamaha.

I need Spotify Connect, Airplay, and an app that gives you every possible streaming radio station, the Sonos App seems to have every possible streaming service integrated into it, perhaps the Bluesound app does as well.

If you go in the Raspberry Pi direction, the Picoreplayer OS combined with the Logitech Media Server seems to present a wide range of options while having an interface that looks almost comparable to a Sonos interface.

Sonos Amp is an option, though it is lacking digital output and lacks pre-out if separate amplification is preferred.
 

RadioBuddha

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Sonos Amp is an option, though it is lacking digital output and lacks pre-out if separate amplification is preferred.

In my setup I already have an old Sony integrated amp, the sound presents perfectly for me, the thing is though with the old Sony and passive speakers I have, I like the sound going out of a mid 2015 Macbook Pro or the Apple USB-C Dac Dongle (but I'm tired of recharging the Iphone's battery every other day when listening to Spotify), and I don't want the computer on while listening to music, so technically I could buy the Sonos Port and send the audio out to the Apple USB-C Dac, that is a possibility, I don't think I can do that with the Bluesound Node because their USB out is not currently working, I believe the company said they are working on a firmware update to make it usable.

One thing though, I tried Google numerous times but I can't find the answer, the Sonos Port has a digital out, is there an adapter to send that to an Apple USB-C Dac Dongle? Does digital out mean SPIDF?

Update: OK, from Darko's site, the digital output is coaxial, not sure how I could send the coaxial to the Apple USB-C, I'll keep searching.
 
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Laserjock

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Thought about the Paradigm PW Link at $199 USD currently to get ARC as well. Just not sure how stable that is since it seems to be going discontinued from the Paradigm portfolio.
USB out to my Oppo 205 would be pretty awesome so I might just go that route with the new NODE hoping to get the USB output promised.

Edit: changed Dirac to ARC
 
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enricoclaudio

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Well, after 1 full day listening and testing the NODE + Topping D90ES combo, I have decided to get a RMA/refund for the D90ES. The D90ES does not like Roon at all. Feeding the D90ES with Coax or Opt out from the NODE and the ARCAM ST60, I get drops with any MQA song. It kinda reminds me the same issue I had with the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. Also tried today with the D90ES via USB from a Lenovo M90n and as soon I start playing with Roon and group zones, the D90ES gets crazy and literally lose sync. Finally, to be honest, to my ears there is not discernible difference in SQ between the NODE internal DAC and the D90ES in my bedroom setup. If I do an A/B comparison in my living room setup, then difference becomes obvious, even when comparing the D90ES with the ARCAN ST60. Conclusion, for non critical listening, the NODE is just a fine player. BTW, @JohnYang1997 is totally aware of the issues I’m having with the D90ES in my system and he is the one who recommended me to ask the dealer for a RMA/refund. If the D90ES issues with Roon/MQA get resolved in a future firmware update, I would get it again in a heartbeat!! That good the D90ES is.
 

ivayvr

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Realistically, I have no right to comment the NODE since I have never owned one. My first Bluesound was Node 2, followed by Powernode 2 and currently I have Node 2i. At one point, after reading about the poor performance of the built in DAC I purchased the Schit Modi (the cheapest $99.00 version). The reviews were very positive and it was reasonably priced. After a month or so I figured that I was unable to hear any sound improvement and sold it. I am not implying that there is anything wrong with the Schit. I am just saying I was unable to hear any improvement. It could be my hearing.
My initial exposure to the streaming was by Logitech Squeeze Box Duet. I was very excited when after a few days of trying I was eventually able to stream the music! Again, I am not blaming the unit. It could simply be me and lack of expertise and understanding of how the software worked.
When I switched to my first Node, I experienced a huge improvement in all aspects. The sound was much better and the app was very easy to use (even for me). Since then, there were numerous upgrades and updates of the app. They added a number of new features like MQA, Airplay, two way bluetooth etc. If you are not in a mood of waiting for an update, you can skip it or postpone it and just enjoy the music.
About having no remote, you can "teach" your Node to work its basic functions using any remote you may have sitting around.
About the risk of Bluesound stopping the support of their equipment, I believe that is identical to Roon doing the same. It is actually probably lower having in mind how long the NAD/Bluesound have been around. I remember reading the justification of the price increase for Roon: "It is very expensive to maintain and improve the quality of the service" or something like that. Among other things, Bluesound is licensing their OS to other manufacturers. Dali comes to mind and I doubt their (Dali's) decision has been motivated by "confirmation bias".
On a different level, nobody is questioning the cost of Roon. I am talking about their lifetime subscription (because paying it monthly is like buying an inkjet printer). Why $ 700? Why not $ 1500? I had a three month trial of Roon and it is really nice. Unfortunately I did not know how to use all of the features, among others, the equalizer function since you need additional equipment and expertise to properly use it. So based on that a lifetime subscription that I would consider reasonable is in a $150-200 range.
That is bringing us to the next question: How much is the Bluesond OS that comes with a lifetime subscription actually worth? Since it comes with all the features I need and know how to use, for me it is worth at least half of the cost of Roon. That brings us to the cost of the hardware in a range of $250. Having in mind that the Node is fully fledged pre amp that comes with a streamer, I tend to believe it is a real bargain. None of the Pi options is anywhere near the Node in that regard.
I am aware that some of my statements may be subjective or arbitrary but that was a general tone of this discussion from the very beginning.
About "confirmation bias" it may be worth reading this article:
https://darko.audio/2021/08/eisa-hi-fi-awards-2021-2022/
 

Jmudrick

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Thought about the Paradigm PW Link at $199 USD currently to get ARC as well. Just not sure how stable that is since it seems to be going discontinued from the Paradigm portfolio.
USB out to my Oppo 205 would be pretty awesome so I might just go that route with the new NODE hoping to get the USB output promised.

Edit: changed Dirac to ARC

Even if Paradigm never updated the software/firmware again, its ARC and steaming capabilities make it a steal at under $200. If I had more rooms I'd get more than the two I've got.
 

RadioBuddha

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Even if Paradigm never updated the software/firmware again, its ARC and steaming capabilities make it a steal at under $200. If I had more rooms I'd get more than the two I've got.

There is always some complicating factor, the Paradigm uses the Play-Fi App, there are rumors that Apple is working on a new Homepod style speaker with a display, I hope they are, someone could steal a bunch of market share with a large display and even if they go the speakers route, the ability to send that audio out to your own amp and speakers, it seems that the only streaming players with displays are in the $1k to $3k range.
 

JJB70

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I have never bought into the Bluesound system, mainly because I think Sonos does it better for less. A while ago I got some Sonos One speakers for my wife and kids to have sound around the house and the equivalent Bluesound units were double the price and didn't seem any better for what we wanted. However those I know who have bought into the Bluesound system like it, and it seems easy to use.
 

dtaylo1066

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Show me something that does it all like The NODE with better DAC and I’ll buy it!
What’s the next best thing and cost?

Volumio's Primo for about the cost of the BlueSound Node is a much higher performing and better designed unit, with a far better DAC chip. As to the Node, they could do a much better job for little or no additional cost. Why don't they? I would submit that the lion's share of Node buyers are quite content if not extremely happy with the sound and the product. A lot of their music might even be stored in compressed formats to begin with, or listened to over not particularly accurate of systems.
 

Jmudrick

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There is always some complicating factor, the Paradigm uses the Play-Fi App, there are rumors that Apple is working on a new Homepod style speaker with a display, I hope they are, someone could steal a bunch of market share with a large display and even if they go the speakers route, the ability to send that audio out to your own amp and speakers, it seems that the only streaming players with displays are in the $1k to $3k range.

Depending on your source you can always bypass the Play-Fi app. Spotify direct works fine, as does the Amazon app. For Qobuz and local files I use Audirvana.or Bubbleupnp. At this writing I'm only using Play Fi for XM radio and have no problem.
 
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