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Bluesound Node Review (Streamer)

dshreter

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If you have an Apple TV 4 or newer you can take the sound from AirPlay in Apple TV 4 to a Yamaha wxc50 using AirPlay . Wxc50 has a digital spdif output that can change the volume to your Genelecs 8330 using its digital input with a rca - xlr cable.

Thats the way I use my Genelec 8340.
that is a good option. But it’s also lacking ARC, and locks you into Apple TV. I’m not saying it isn’t suitable, but it points out the shortage of options in this space more than anything.
 

AudioSceptic

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LTS publish its result in a paper and you have to pay a membership to read the results , Im sorry to say. You can also read the paper in swedish librarys.

The good thing is that the ”before and after” blind test they did using toslink input on Yamaha wxc50 showed a really good DAC that they couldnt detect- it was transparent in its sound . Its the cheapest dac they have tested with such a good result.

They have also tested more expensive units, like Chord, and while the measurement results were outstanding, they were able to detect the dac in the blind listening tests as slightly colored in the bass region.
Now, that's interesting. I wonder what it was in the Chord that was audible.
 
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amirm

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It's been demonstrated that 0.004% THD+N, even more so when dominated by distortion is not an audible concern, not every products are in this business just to "beat" the competition at numbers, they are selling an experience, this product can let you hear music in hifi, depending of what comes after. Can you hear these distortion level? If not why would it matter?
There is no such evidence. There are a million ways to get 0.004% THD+N so what you say can't possibly be correct.

Look, here is the problem from company's website:

1628455472404.png


People read this and assume not only is it transparent to CD but will reach even higher levels of objective performance. Yet it has second harmonic distortion that exceeds CD's noise floor:

1628455543816.png


By contrast, here is the performance of Apple's $9 dongle:

index.php


Its second harmonic is down to -100 dB, easily clearing the noise floor of CD. Indeed you can see that in the SINAD of 99 which is a whopping 12 dB better than Bluesound NODE. It also has almost no harmonic distortion past second unlike NODE.

So please dispense with making excuses for manufacturers. They don't do a better job because people like you do casual listening tests and rave about what they hear. That gives them no motivation to do better.

And no, doing better doesn't mean higher cost as the Apple dongle shows. And countless other budget DACs we have seen with much improved performance with zero impact to their retail cost.

You can wash your dishes once and do a good job and they come out clean. Or don't do a good job and with same effort, produce still dirty dished.
 

enricoclaudio

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Tried the E30 (sounded great) then the D70, which has balanced outputs which I used to hook to the Freya+. Sounds great as well.

Just placed an order for the Topping D90ES to use it as a DAC with my NODE ;) Was looking at the Gustard X16 thinking it was the only with MQA over Coaxial then figured out that the D90ES does MQA on every input and it was available from Apos Audio.
 

PeteL

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There is no such evidence. There are a million ways to get 0.004% THD+N so what you say can't possibly be correct.

Look, here is the problem from company's website:

View attachment 146353

People read this and assume not only is it transparent to CD but will reach even higher levels of objective performance. Yet it has second harmonic distortion that exceeds CD's noise floor:

View attachment 146354

By contrast, here is the performance of Apple's $9 dongle:

index.php


Its second harmonic is down to -100 dB, easily clearing the noise floor of CD. Indeed you can see that in the SINAD of 99 which is a whopping 12 dB better than Bluesound NODE. It also has almost no harmonic distortion past second unlike NODE.

So please dispense with making excuses for manufacturers. They don't do a better job because people like you do casual listening tests and rave about what they hear. That gives them no motivation to do better.

And no, doing better doesn't mean higher cost as the Apple dongle shows. And countless other budget DACs we have seen with much improved performance with zero impact to their retail cost.

You can wash your dishes once and do a good job and they come out clean. Or don't do a good job and with same effort, produce still dirty dished.
Sure, I can only say for sure that I can't hear these levels of distortions, not everybody, but there is nothing untrue in what is highlighted in yellow, the fact that people read into it read and assume transparency to CD has no direct link in supporting a file format or not.
 
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amirm

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Sure, I can only say for sure that I can't hear these levels of distortions, not everybody, but there is nothing untrue in what is highlighted in yellow, the fact that people read into it read and assume transparency to CD has no direct link in supporting a file format or not.
So you think a DAC that 40 years after invention of the CD can't still play that format transparently is "audiophile quality?" And going on to 24-bit as stated in the statement means nothing either?

If you are going to be this level of apologist for manufacturers, then you should just shop on basis of looks and features and not bother to read and comment on my reviews.
 

Chocomel

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There is no such evidence. There are a million ways to get 0.004% THD+N so what you say can't possibly be correct.

Look, here is the problem from company's website:

View attachment 146353

People read this and assume not only is it transparent to CD but will reach even higher levels of objective performance. Yet it has second harmonic distortion that exceeds CD's noise floor:

View attachment 146354

By contrast, here is the performance of Apple's $9 dongle:

index.php


Its second harmonic is down to -100 dB, easily clearing the noise floor of CD. Indeed you can see that in the SINAD of 99 which is a whopping 12 dB better than Bluesound NODE. It also has almost no harmonic distortion past second unlike NODE.

So please dispense with making excuses for manufacturers. They don't do a better job because people like you do casual listening tests and rave about what they hear. That gives them no motivation to do better.

And no, doing better doesn't mean higher cost as the Apple dongle shows. And countless other budget DACs we have seen with much improved performance with zero impact to their retail cost.

You can wash your dishes once and do a good job and they come out clean. Or don't do a good job and with same effort, produce still dirty dished.

Do you think the distortion as you measured it is audible?
 

Chocomel

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So you think a DAC that 40 years after invention of the CD can't still play that format transparently is "audiophile quality?" And going on to 24-bit as stated in the statement means nothing either?

How would something that is audible transparent not be audiophile quality?
 

walt99

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I think it’s more about the app than the hardware, the Bluesound app has worked flawlessly for me and as much as I would like to have roon it’s pretty hard to justify for my streaming enjoyment. I use Tidal and Qobuz with no issues on the 2i.
 
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amirm

amirm

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I was shocked when I first saw the price. $10/month or $700 lifetime and that's without any music, right? I still have to pay on top for the streamer services or otherwise buy the music?
Why were you shocked? I really don't get this. The player is what I interact with all the time. It is the most important piece of technology in my audio system. Since buying a lifetime subscription, I have spent thousands of dollars on content. What I paid for Roon is nothing compared to that.

I hear this about TVs all the time. "Should I pay so much for it?" Then they go and pay $200 a month for their cable TV which dwarfs the cost of just about any TV!

As I have noted, I can do in-player EQ with zero fidelity loss or screwing around with external software, etc. EQ is the #1 tool to improve the fidelity of your system. If you are not using that because your streaming app for your hardware doesn't have it, then you and I are not friends. :) You are missing out on huge fidelity improvement.

I now have profiles for dozens and dozens of speakers and headphones in Roon. With just a pull-down menu I can instantly select the right EQ for what I am listening with.

There is also the longevity question. Lenbrooks could decide to shut down Bluesound and with it, you could kiss your future App availability goodbye. They could also leave older hardware behind as SONOS did recently. I don't have that worry with when I just use the streamer as "push" bridge between Ethernet/Wifi and a DAC.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Based it of your measurements. Are you aware of any measurements from others that might show troublesome performance?
What do you mean based on my measurements? You said it was audibly transparent. Once more, how did you determine it was audibly transparent?
 

PeteL

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So you think a DAC that 40 years after invention of the CD can't still play that format transparently is "audiophile quality?" And going on to 24-bit as stated in the statement means nothing either?

If you are going to be this level of apologist for manufacturers, then you should just shop on basis of looks and features and not bother to read and comment on my reviews.
Look, there was in these pages sound clips with all kind of distortion profiles added at level higher than this. I couldn't distinguish, so was the majority if not all participant.
I don't think 24 bits mean nothing. it means it plays 24 bits natively, which mean no rounding errors in downsampling, no extra dithering, noise shaping, etc. Yes this is all also distortion and being able to play 24 bits just means this. It will not have this contributing to overall distortion when playing 24 bits file nothing more, nothing less, I do not know if it matters. Clearing CD format, means not much more, no format uses the 16 bits for DATA, the dynamic range of the whole conversion system tells you how far from the noise floor you are, added distortion is just that, added distortion, there is no direct link mathematically between word length and expected distortion to have. It is linked to filtering, to digital manipulation, could be the analog part of the converter, could be anything else in the circuit. "clearing CD format" In term of THD, not noise floor, has no engineering meaning, doesn't mean it don't matter for any formats but this is not related to word length.
 
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Chocomel

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What do you mean based on my measurements? You said it was audibly transparent. Once more, how did you determine it was audibly transparent?

I checked your measurements, considered if they showed (potentially) audible issues based of my understanding of the literature. Decided that they didn't show any issues, in turn i feel confident saying it's audible transparent. Why would i think it's not audible transparent when the measurements look good enough?
 

Foulchet

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Honestly that seems to be a very good product overall. The form factor is small, the I/O are mass-market ready and the product is packed with many features (more importantly : modern, many streamers I see in French websites are outdated or lacking) you would need. Of course, some Denon/Marantz/Yamaha/etc. products can also pack as much and more for the same cost, but overall it is pretty solid. I must admit that I almost purchased it but the aesthetics and "appeal" of the product (from an enthousiast perspective, so really subjective and "audiofool") redirected me to more cooler gear (with metal build, etc.).
If the Node is reliabale on the long run, why not ? Seems pretty good for a small room and it doe snot seem to be a real "audiophile-market" targetted product. The offer for this kind of products is not large enough (or not renewed) to dismiss it.

I do not comment on the measures and audibility, I honestly do not care and do not know what the concrete result would be. :p
 

pjug

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Why were you shocked? I really don't get this. The player is what I interact with all the time. It is the most important piece of technology in my audio system. Since buying a lifetime subscription, I have spent thousands of dollars on content. What I paid for Roon is nothing compared to that.

I hear this about TVs all the time. "Should I pay so much for it?" Then they go and pay $200 a month for their cable TV which dwarfs the cost of just about any TV!

As I have noted, I can do in-player EQ with zero fidelity loss or screwing around with external software, etc. EQ is the #1 tool to improve the fidelity of your system. If you are not using that because your streaming app for your hardware doesn't have it, then you and I are not friends. :) You are missing out on huge fidelity improvement.

I now have profiles for dozens and dozens of speakers and headphones in Roon. With just a pull-down menu I can instantly select the right EQ for what I am listening with.

There is also the longevity question. Lenbrooks could decide to shut down Bluesound and with it, you could kiss your future App availability goodbye. They could also leave older hardware behind as SONOS did recently. I don't have that worry with when I just use the streamer as "push" bridge between Ethernet/Wifi and a DAC.
You can look at these things any way you want really. I think Qobuz and Tidal folding are more likely than BluOS products becoming obsolete. My attitude is don't worry about it and use what you like and deal with whatever happens.

On the panther, I don't blame you if it wouldn't work and you spent time fooling around for nothing. I'm surprised you didn't smash up a good panther.
 
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amirm

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I checked your measurements, considered if they showed (potentially) audible issues based of my understanding of the literature. Decided that they didn't show any issues, in turn i feel confident saying it's audible transparent. Why would i think it's not audible transparent when the measurements look good enough?
What literature? You are just guessing with waiving your hand there. Don't make a guess and then draw conclusions.

If I could build a BMW clone for $15,000 I am sure I could sell a ton of them. That doesn't mean I can build a BMW for $15,000.
 
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