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Bluesound Node Icon Streamer Review

Rate this streamer/DAC/Preamp:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 44 19.1%

  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 98 42.6%

  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 74 32.2%

  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 14 6.1%
  • Total voters
    230
Mark411 said:
Can someone help me understand the impact of this filter choice?
Click to expand...
I'm running my RME DAC with slow filter as details in voices on some recordings seems more realistic. Speasially in the lower register and chest sounds. Initial quick A/B test didn't reveal this. But listening for a longer period (days) with slow filter and then to A/B test some track realy benefinnet from the slow filter.

With regards to slow filters, the Ensoniq Mirage 8-bit sampler from 84' is a interesting study. This sampler let user set aliasing filter and reconstruction filter manually and thereby destroy any fidelity to create ear candy. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ensoniq+mirage
 
pogo said:
Bluesound made the comparisons internally and the results were in favor of the MQA QRONO d2a filter. Switching the filter was probably considered unnecessary.
Click to expand...
What a great selling feature it would be if you could see it on and off. It’s like having Dirac on and off. A camera with image stabilization on or off.

Mark411 said:
Can someone help me understand the impact of this filter choice?
Click to expand...
Don’t worry. If NOS DACs or Marantz get didn’t fry people’s tweeters, you’ll be OK. The risk is just sending too much power.

The argument is probably that it’s not audible, but money was spent on something that is probably inaudible and measures worse, so even though it doesn’t matter, Amir can try to vote with his scoring to try to push companies in the direction of not doing this.

On the other hand, some people think it may actually be helpful. This is truly one of the quietest products out there. It has very good signal to noise ratio AND is only putting out 3.67V. The Node Icon has 1.89 uV noise on its best channel and 1.59 uV noise on its best channel. But the Icon has Wi-Fi, a computer, and a display in the same box for an extra $100.

JSmith said:
It's HDMI 2.1 more so (i.e. sync protocols), not really eARC itself.
Click to expand...
I guess eARC was introduced with HDMI 2.1 and so when you see eARC, you are guaranteed to have automatic lip sync since it’s mandatory for eARC according to the HDMI 2.1 standards. ARC has always had this optionally but it is inconsistently used and
 
amirm said:
Is there a white paper/write up on this?
Click to expand...
The white paper doesn’t talk about the testing, just what the filter is.


It’s this article,
Some DACs let users choose among different digital filters. Following our interview, I emailed Jbara to ask if that option will be available with Qrono-enabled devices. It will not, he responded. “The Lenbrook team determined that QRONO dsd and QRONO d2a are such significant and fundamental improvements to our audio pipeline that they are now core components of the audio chain of each model that will receive the upgrade. These should not be seen as effects or options.”

Mike Jbara = former CEO of MQA Limited and head of Lenbrook’s MQA
 
Mark411 said:
Thanks for the review! I recently purchased a Node Icon and can offer my perspective on what made it a no-brainer for my particular use case and why its price didn’t seem out of line for me (a recently retired married guy in a smallish house). I use the Icon along with an Apollon Purifi 1ET6525SA ST amp, KEF LS-50 Meta speakers, and a Bluesound Pulse Sub+. The Icon and amp live out-of-sight in a cabinet.
  1. It runs BlueOS. After having an older Node and an NAD C399 with BlueOS module, my wife and I have gotten used to and actually like the app despite its “quirks” and are loathe to change. The app has been rock-solid stable, runs well on iPhone, and is frequently updated and well-supported.
  2. It integrates wirelessly with the Pulse Sub+. This is a great sub for me. I have in-home auditioned at least six other subs and the combination of form, size, and sound of the Pulse hit the sweet spot. Because of its location, running a sub cable is out of the question. I’ve tried three wireless adapters and found them either unreliable or to hum/buzz. In contrast, the integrated wi-fi connection to Bluesound devices is reliable and silent.
  3. It has integrated Dirac support. I find it really easy to calibrate for various listening positions and love the ability to switch instantly between up to five filters in BlueOS. (I don’t think I need to convince ASR members of the benefits of equilization!)
  4. It has an IR in jack. I know, “a what??” My hi-fi doubles as an AV receiver and I love the ability to control the TV, Roku box, and Icon with a single Logitech Harmony remote when streaming movies or watching OTA TV.
Of course, now I’m bummed to discover from this review that my new Icon has a sub-optimal reconstruction filter, which keeps it out of the “recommended” category. Can someone help me understand the impact of this filter choice? Is it more like “for $1K you should expect a better filter even though the sound difference is inaudible” or more like “this unit would sound better if the filter didn’t suck” or even as one commenter implied, “this crummy filter will fry your tweeters”?

Thanks! --Mark
Click to expand...
“for $1K you should expect a better filter even though the sound difference is inaudible”

Most likely this,... they (Lenbrook/BluOs/Node) should just have offered it as a selectable option, and not as only default, just as well as the other usual filters that come with ESS DAC's standard.
If they are so convinced of this "superior" filter it should be immediately obvious to the consumer, now we can't compare!
Anyways other than price and this specific issue it seems like a good proposition to people who are into this kind of product, and who knows it might even be fixable (the normal filters) with a software update?
 
It's ok, for it's expensive price it should be a lot better, and look a lot better also. But you can't call this bad, it's ok. Not worth the money altough, in times where Wii is arround.
 
AdrianusG said:
“for $1K you should expect a better filter even though the sound difference is inaudible”

Most likely this,... they (Lenbrook/BluOs/Node) should just have offered it as a selectable option, and not as only default, just as well as the other usual filters that come with ESS DAC's standard.
If they are so convinced of this "superior" filter it should be immediately obvious to the consumer, now we can't compare!
Anyways other than price and this specific issue it seems like a good proposition to people who are into this kind of product, and who knows it might even be fixable (the normal filters) with a software update?
Click to expand...
GXAlan said:
The white paper doesn’t talk about the testing, just what the filter is.


It’s this article,
Some DACs let users choose among different digital filters. Following our interview, I emailed Jbara to ask if that option will be available with Qrono-enabled devices. It will not, he responded. “The Lenbrook team determined that QRONO dsd and QRONO d2a are such significant and fundamental improvements to our audio pipeline that they are now core components of the audio chain of each model that will receive the upgrade. These should not be seen as effects or options.”

Mike Jbara = former CEO of MQA Limited and head of Lenbrook’s MQA
Click to expand...
Ah, now i see that the "normal filters" will not be added
 
Upsampling on your computer is a workaround . On the fly by your streaming software for example ROON or
LMS or HQP preferred. You should not alter your files .

But these kind of shenanigans should not be needed normally DAC’s carry on good enough internal upsampling anyway .

And 24/192 migth be marginal over WiFi .

But the filter issues is not the big problem it’s almost inconsequential, but very very easy to fix hence the frustration.

The other software bugs are worse .
 
I bought the Icon early because I was excited about the feature set. Coming from a Roon into Matrix mini-i pro 3 setup, the Icon:
1. has a larger display
2. Like the Matrix, is controllable by universal ir remote (unlike offerings by Wiim and Eversolo)
3. Unlike the Matrix, has Tidal Connect built in, obviating the need (for me) to pay for Roon
4. FWIW I thought the build quality was great - cool aluminum and glass casing. I disagree with Amir on this.

Unfortunately, I ended up sending the Icon back. It sounded very good to me, but just had too many usability bugs:
1. It was not able to find the music files on my home server
2. Tidal Connect integration with BluOs app was buggy and inconsistent. Constant problems.
3. I have a combined home theater + listening setup, and whenever I turned off the Sony TV it would mute the Icon. Even if the TV was not the active source, and regardless of whether the TV was connected by HDMI or optical. Tried all the CEC settings, auto detect on/off, etc. to no avail. Sometimes the display would show "muted" even though music was playing. It was a mess.
4. The black levels of the display were quite bad, and there was no option to turn if off or dim it during TV viewing.

Now I'm running a WiiM Pro Plus into a Topping DAC (mostly for ir remote volume control, and XLR output) and it's infinitely more stable and useable for my use case. I do miss album art display, but the WiiM Ultra's display is reportedly too small to be of use in a living room setup anyway.
 
Kolllak said:
QRONO white paper

Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing. Interesting that they don't mention doing double blind listening tests, or anything that could be objectively repeated or verified.

That whole paper is a hypothesis about why this approach MIGHT make an audible improvement to the listener experience.

To demonstrate that it actually does, a sufficiently large and varied sample of listeners in a controlled double blind test need to be able to reliably and repeatedly select this implementation based on how it sounds AND need to express a consistent preference for this solution to justify the claims (ie demonstrate that the hypothesis is true).
 
Last edited:
MaadScience said:
I bought the Icon early [...]

Unfortunately, I ended up sending the Icon back. It sounded very good to me, but just had too many usability bugs:
1. It was not able to find the music files on my home server
2. Tidal Connect integration with BluOs app was buggy and inconsistent. Constant problems.
3. I have a combined home theater + listening setup, and whenever I turned off the Sony TV it would mute the Icon. Even if the TV was not the active source, and regardless of whether the TV was connected by HDMI or optical. Tried all the CEC settings, auto detect on/off, etc. to no avail. Sometimes the display would show "muted" even though music was playing. It was a mess.
4. The black levels of the display were quite bad, and there was no option to turn if off or dim it during TV viewing.
Click to expand...

THANKS for sharing this.. I'm always fighting fomo so this is invaluable to me! if I bought one it would have been positioned under my tv, very helpful information.

question for the group: any indication anyone from Bluesound visits ASR? I've tried reaching out to them directly for bug reports in the past but was met with a bit of hostility.. another company that just seems to blame users wi-fi strength for their devices shortcomings. If you've ever visited their forum you may have seen paying customers getting blocked/censored for demanding satisfaction and it's really sad. If they are lurking here I hope they are taking notes.
 
mags65 said:
Apart from the fact that the DX3 is not a streamer?
Click to expand...
from the link jcarys cited:
The only thing missing is networking — there’s no Ethernet or Wi-Fi. However, Roon users can nonetheless stream all of their favorite sources to the DX-3 if you use the PC-USB input, which is recognized as a Roon endpoint.
Click to expand...
all for the low price of 1500usd. I guess you're paying a premium for the brand-name?
 
rwtooley said:
from the link jcarys cited:

all for the low price of 1500usd. I guess you're paying a premium for the brand-name?
Click to expand...
Uh guys....The Rotel DX3 has no streaming module/processor - so cannot be a Roon "EndPoint" - the guy on Digital Trends is assuming a DAC/Amp with a USB input means it can be a "Roon Endpoint" - but this only means you can connect the DX3 via USB cable to a Roon server -- right?

It is however "Roon Tested" (I assume this means it passes Roon's DAC and decoding spec for audio quality?) -- but this does not mean it's a network enabled Roon endpoint.

Although I am curious as to what the ARM processor in the internal image does - part of the Bluetooth interface???

www.rotel.com

DX-3

The ultimate Personal Audio companion packaged in exquisite industrial design with the sophistication of a premium, fully balanced Headphone Amplifier. The ESS Sabre ES9028PRO DAC renders music via PC-USB input (32-bit/384kHz), Coaxial/Optical (24-bit/192kHz), aptX™ HD Wireless Bluetooth and...
www.rotel.com www.rotel.com
 
nathan said:
To demonstrate that it actually does, a sufficiently large and varied sample of listeners in a controlled double blind test need to be able to reliably and repeatedly select this implementation based on how it sounds AND need to express a consistent preference for this solution to justify the claims (ie demonstrate that the hypothesis is true).
Click to expand...

That’s not quite accurate. To demonstrate that people prefer wearing bra’s, a large and varied sample will fail to demonstrate a preference. But if you separated men and women, then you can start to show differences. Same with political parties in the U.S.

But you do need a sufficient number of repeated tests for those who do have a preference for a slower filter though. Everyone doesn’t have to prefer it. You just need a market of preference.

Even a study showing a strong dislike for QRONO would be interesting because it shows there is an audible difference.

As it stands, it may not be audible at all.
 
rwtooley said:
from the link jcarys cited:

all for the low price of 1500usd. I guess you're paying a premium for the brand-name?
Click to expand...
Exactly - another unit is the streamer and delivers audio to the DX-3.
 
Streamers should be judged IMO primarily on the breadth of streaming sources they support, use convenience and flexibility. DACs are cheap, small and can be appended to the streamer's digital output easily.

The DAC on this thing is flawed, though not fatally so. But I don't see a compelling reason to choose it over the garden-variety Node. I happen to really like BluOS, and I have to say I'm puzzled by Amir's difficulties figuring it out. But user interfaces are like that; one person's optimum can be someone else's nightmare.
 
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