Blue Jeans Cables Jumps the Shark

[Martin]

BJC was leaving a lot of money on the table. I guess the profits just became irresistible. They are a bargain when compared to some... See Master Built Ultra Cables or MIT ACC Series for comparison.

Martin

 

[mansr]

There was some arguing about these cables over on AS a while ago: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/56060-ho-ho-ho-belden-and-blue-jeans-join-the-dark-side/
It was somewhat entertaining until the thread was closed.

 

[jtwrace]

There's a monster thread on PS Audio which Galen posts on often.

https://forum.psaudio.com/t/belden-iconoclast-interconnects-and-speaker-cabling/2038/2173

 

[ta240]

I like the contrast of speaker cables that are over a thousand dollars and have their own domain name but that they stuck with the 90's website design that went with the bargain wires.

 

[graz_lag]

Sure, however no speaker cable can rend it's best - sonically-wise, without a proper lifter, as this one from Nordost US, which offers a great deal as it comes in packs of two so that one can get covered up to 6 ft. cable length per pack ...

https://www.nordost.com/sort-systems/sort-lift.php

 

[DonH56]

>$2k for a 6' XLR in Ohno. Very disappointing.

Re. measuring, phase shift over frequency (or more likely group delay) is usually measured using a vector network analyzer (VNA), an instrument designed to measure impedance magnitude and phase over frequency. There are several things that can affect the phase over frequency but I am struggling to believe it is anything like audible over the audio band and typical lengths of cables in consumer installations.

 

[Tks]

There was some arguing about these cables over on AS a while ago: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/56060-ho-ho-ho-belden-and-blue-jeans-join-the-dark-side/
It was somewhat entertaining until the thread was closed.

Lol why do they have "Troll" under your user-type? Not by choice I presume?

 

[HammerSandwich]

Ohno

That about sums it up.

 

[Ron Texas]

Well, it's like Vodka:

What is Vodka?

60% water, 40% ethanol (in the US)

"In the United States, many vodkas are made from 95% pure grain alcohol produced in large quantities by agricultural-industrial giants Archer Daniels Midland, Grain Processing Corporation, and Midwest Grain Products (MGP). Bottlers purchase the base spirits in bulk, then filter, dilute, distribute and market the end product under a variety of vodka brand names. Similar methods are used in other regions such as Europe."

On a lot of the stuff you are correct. However, some advertise particular procedures including small batch or using wheat or potatoes instead of the usual corn. If the stuff has no taste and no aftertaste, it probably came from a bulk supplier and was certainly made from corn.

 

[danadam]

Lol why do they have "Troll" under your user-type? Not by choice I presume?

https://troll-audio.com/

 

[JimB]

At least they say this:

"Galen's work is the real thing, and there's no need to wax poetic; if it helps your system sound its best, and if it's worth the money to you, that's marvelous. If it doesn't, well, de gustibus non est disputandum, and we'll take 'em back. Whether you tell us you hear a profound difference, or no difference at all, or anywhere in between, we will never tell you what you do or do not hear; and when you want to return something to us, there's no questioning and no attempt to make you change your mind -- you don't even need to call for an RMA. Just ship it back. "

 

[mansr]

At least they say this:

"Galen's work is the real thing, and there's no need to wax poetic; if it helps your system sound its best, and if it's worth the money to you, that's marvelous. If it doesn't, well, de gustibus non est disputandum, and we'll take 'em back. Whether you tell us you hear a profound difference, or no difference at all, or anywhere in between, we will never tell you what you do or do not hear; and when you want to return something to us, there's no questioning and no attempt to make you change your mind -- you don't even need to call for an RMA. Just ship it back. "

Galen says this:
"You live in a world that sees no future except the past. I can't help you there. You have been given a chance to go forward, use the cables...get back to me. The proof of capability compared to the standards is there. Certainly things can't improve with no change. I made those changes. You seem intent to take away beauty from the world, to leave people and places worse off than you found them, for the sport of it."

 

[NTomokawa]

Protip: Buy bulk Mogami/Belden/Canare cables, Neutrik connectors, RoHS solder and all kinds of colourful heatshrink/Techflex tubing. Make your own cables and delude yourself along the way.

I would be doing that if my local electronics supplier didn't charge $9 CAD for a single Canare 3.5mm jack. And it goes from there...

 

[CDMC]

With these amazing and clear advances, along with the countless testimonials about how these make a night and day difference, maybe BJC would supply some for a DBT. Maybe they can even supply listeners with quantum hearing, so we know that only the best ears are on the job. Heck, maybe we can get Paul McGowen to participate

 

[Tks]

Galen says this:
"You live in a world that sees no future except the past. I can't help you there. You have been given a chance to go forward, use the cables...get back to me. The proof of capability compared to the standards is there. Certainly things can't improve with no change. I made those changes. You seem intent to take away beauty from the world, to leave people and places worse off than you found them, for the sport of it."

 

[bequietjk]

Ahff. I'm not too deep into the technical aspects of electronics but I feel that my BJC RCA's are of stellar quality. It's a shame that a great company would step into sour-like territory.

@Tks I'm saving that gif lol

 

[direstraitsfan98]

"But Galen came to believe that while these factors account for MUCH of what goes on in a cable, it is still possible for cables with the same R, L and C to have different sounds. The difference comes down to time -- that some factors which are not taken fully into account in measuring overall R, L and C do affect the relative speeds of parts of the signal as they travel down the signal path. For example, while VP (velocity of propagation) is typically stated as a constant, it actually varies, and varies substantially, with frequency within the audio band. Ideally, one wants every part of a signal to travel at the same speed, and Galen looked to ways to mitigate and balance frequency-dependent effects upon signal timing."

just an observation but i find these cable manufactures and the guys behind them who own their own companies always talk like this. its just this increidbly arrogant and condescending tone and they act like they are somehow on some higher level and understand the meaning of life.

a prime example is ken hotte at teo audio. his posts on canuckaudiomart forums make me feel like im developing an aneurysm in my brain. same with this galen joker.

 

[blueone]

For example, while VP (velocity of propagation) is typically stated as a constant, it actually varies, and varies substantially, with frequency within the audio band. Ideally, one wants every part of a signal to travel at the same speed, and Galen looked to ways to mitigate and balance frequency-dependent effects upon signal timing."

Let's assume that statement is true for audio frequencies; I don't know that it is, and I doubt it is significant. If VP varied such that there was a 300 nanosecond difference between propagation at 20Hz and 20KHz in a 15 foot copper speaker cable, would it make an audible difference? It seems very doubtful to me.

 

[HammerSandwich]

How loudly are you playing the system? Because that works out to a 0.1mm difference in relative woofer position. (Unless I flubbed the arithmetic at this late hour...)

 

[Tks]

"But Galen came to believe that while these factors account for MUCH of what goes on in a cable, it is still possible for cables with the same R, L and C to have different sounds. The difference comes down to time -- that some factors which are not taken fully into account in measuring overall R, L and C do affect the relative speeds of parts of the signal as they travel down the signal path. For example, while VP (velocity of propagation) is typically stated as a constant, it actually varies, and varies substantially, with frequency within the audio band. Ideally, one wants every part of a signal to travel at the same speed, and Galen looked to ways to mitigate and balance frequency-dependent effects upon signal timing."

just an observation but i find these cable manufactures and the guys behind them who own their own companies always talk like this. its just this increidbly arrogant and condescending tone and they act like they are somehow on some higher level and understand the meaning of life.

a prime example is ken hotte at teo audio. his posts on canuckaudiomart forums make me feel like im developing an aneurysm in my brain. same with this galen joker.

First off, I’m more concerned regarding a few things.

When someone wants to make claims of scientific merit and hen advocate for a new pragmatic approach to something, I first would like to understand first and foremost if they’re true. Since I’m a simpleton/laymen, I could never actually know if this is true simply because I am unable to test the claims, nor find any consensus yet. But it sounds reasonable enough with what I know, so to the whole ordeal about speed of signal based on the medium it’s traveling on/through... I simply charitably grant that this is the case.

Second, now I’m concerned with how such truth was actually ascertained. A measurement technique or infered from already existing knowledge, so we’re fine here too.

Third, what other industry, body of science states this new understanding will have pragmatic noticeable benefits to a consumer? Let’s say he can provide sources on this request, so we again continue along with our exploration of this ordeal.

Fourth, where has knowledge of this particular truth been employed in the audio products industry? Oh nowhere perhaps? Fair enough since this is your new discovery on how you’re basing your engineering principles on this new way of designing cables for instance.

Fifth, okay, you’ve done the work, you have measurements demonstrating some level of difference is occurring with your new design compared to others who didn’t take this new understanding into consideration. Have there been rigorous tests that conform to the most desireable blind test standards (double or triple) to determine if any of this is audible or noticeable by people? Oh what’s that? Not yet, no need because you have measurements that show a difference exists. Okay fine let’s move on to that.

Sixth, have you determined thresholds where human senses can detect the difference between such measurements by any chance? Well naturally no I assume, since that would require you to do a more rigorous form of blind testing as you’re now trying to establish not simply if your new product creates any audible difference at all, you’re now trying to determine a thing much more difficult (human thresholds intotality for the whole principle you’ve been working around). It’s like the difference between trying to see if a poison will kill you, and then trying to determine exact dosages for various levels of symptoms to the poison quantities administered.


Seventh. Okay okay, it’s a new approach, that’s understandable, and perhaps I ask too much. Would you care to show me where this application can help if I allowed you to create a near impossible scenario, an exaggerated instance where the benefits of your design can clearly be demonstrated? Like fulfilling some very demanding industrial need in some governmental institution, or some mega corporation using such an approach because anything less is simply too undesirable due to stringent performance expectations? Hmm haven’t seen this either sadly..

These are the sorts of stumbling that begins to pile on that one by one contribute to my skepticism even as a pure laymen. And I think most rational people do this kind of thinking automatically and very quickly almost without thinking about it (the sort of people who are versed in instantly smelling bullshit, is what I was basically describing with these steps).

Oh btw @direstraitsfan98

lol nice freakin Runescape gnome meme avatar