Blu-ray is dying…

[Chrispy]

I'm pretty sure DVD-A does, but I could be wrong.

I was thinking more of just DVD. I don't have much in the way of DVD-A, but the one I just pulled out is "advanced resolution" and player identifies it as 5.1 MLP 96/24

 

[Chrispy]

The audio on typical DVDs is very poorly explained in general - but standard DVDs *can* support lossless audio. And supposedly many have WAV or such audio on them, and it's up to the player, but never deeply researched it.

Then again, many ASR fans talk highly about Dolby Atmos telling us we're fools to not adopt it for music... despite the fact it is most (?) often encoded in a lossy way (or so I read). Mind you, I am not in the "unless it's lossless it's not worth listeing to" club.

That's why I like to *know* my fav music that i outright *own* and nothing other than death or a major catastrophe can take from me is there to stay, lossless in CD quality or perhaps above.

Just never ran into anything but lossy on normal dvd. I did just answer sal1950 with a dvd-a I pulled out as providing 5.1 MLP 96/24. My biggest complaint about Dolby Atmos applied to music is not particularly mixed for such, just an algorithm is applied but moot point for me as have not installed Atmos overhead speakers either.

 

[EJ3]

Seriously, that surprises the hell out of me.
You never had any interest in listening/watching recorded live concerts at all?

That is the primary content that I seek!
I can view it on my computer monitor & listen to it on my stereo.

 

[EJ3]

Another Panasonic plasma owner!

I am high-tech in the front of our house (Home Theater, and two channel) and a Luddite in the rest of the house… don’t really care what technology goes on there.

In our back room, we still use the Panasonic 42 inch ED resolution (essentially DVD resolution before HD resolution on flatscreen became popular).

I bought it in 2002 and it’s still going strong!
(which is amazing since back then the longevity and issues with burn in made people very tentative about buying a plasma).

At my mothers house there is a Panasonic 48" Plasma unit that gets way more use than the 3 year old Samsung whatever it is (that she has been trying to gift to me for better than a year now).

 

[Sal1950]

Ripping HD DVD works the same as Bluray, but only way I know of to get compatible PC drives is to buy an old HP notebook.

I was just curious, never got into HD DVD at all, in fact till it was mentioned here I forgot all about it.
Very shortly lived, first players and discs released.

"On March 31, 2006, Toshiba released their first consumer-based HD DVD player in Japan at ¥110,000 (US$934).[29] HD DVD was released in the United States on April 18, 2006,[30] with players priced at $499 and $799."
"On February 19, 2008, Toshiba announced plans to discontinue development, marketing and manufacturing of HD DVD players while still providing product support and after-sale service to consumers of the format (including firmware updates), effectively making the platform obsolete.'

HD DVD - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ouch that was a quick and bloody format war, BluRay was dancing on DVD's grave. LOL
Folks can say what they will about BD but it's an excellent medium with data room to support just about any need.
Unfortunately like all physical media, for better or worse, the streaming platforms have aimed the parting shots.
I can only hope the bandwidth needed to offer lossless streaming of everything we desire will be a reality in the not to far off future.
At my age I think I'll be working with what we currently have for the duration.

I was thinking more of just DVD. I don't have much in the way of DVD-A, but the one I just pulled out is "advanced resolution" and player identifies it as 5.1 MLP 96/24

Thanks Chrispy 5.1 of Meridian Lossless Packaging, I was pretty sure DVD-Audio was.

 

[-Matt-]

No one needs completely uncompressed video. Really. It's a total waste of bits. It's a bit like saying the speed indicator in your car has to be accurate all the time into 10 digits... why? I kinda get why we emotionally insist we *must* have at least 16/44 for audio fidelity (a lot of money was spent on convicing us about that during that transition), but for video it is silly. Imagine your Teams or Zoom meetings if people were sending 1.5Gbps web cam streams (uncompressed 1080 video BW)... none of us would be working from home, and it's questionable larg enterprise networks would support it even now.

Agreed. The data rates for uncompressed video passing over HDMI cables are far higher than our networks can handle. (Eg. Max data rate for HDMI 2.1 is 48Gbps).

And yet there are clearly visible differences between different video compression algorithms and data rates, even those that are claimed to be "perceptually lossless".

If you want to buy a movie, bluray discs (even the non 4k UHD ones) are currently still the highest quality source material available.

I frequently notice annoying motion artifacts and posterisation introduced by the low bitrate compression used by streamers. I rarely, if ever, notice the same with bluray discs.

The streamers care about the data efficiency of their algorithms and have significant business pressures to use the lowest bitrate that people will accept. In contrast, on a bluray disc you have a given capacity and there is no particular reason to reduce the data rate beyond the point where the movie fits on the disc.

It may be that on a bluray disc, a large number of the additional bits (that makup the higher bitrate) are expended in encoding film grain. But when I buy a movie I definitely want that sort of archival level of overkill! Rather than the (usually) just about good enough data rate served up by streamers and which is subject to change at any moment according to their whim.

Note that the situation is very different in video vs audio. Lossless audio at 16/44, 24/48 or even 24/192 are easily possible, so this is what we should aim to purchase. For video, the data rates are far more challenging and so lossy compression is needed, in that situation we should look for the highest data rate available.

 

[Chrispy]

I was just curious, never got into HD DVD at all, in fact till it was mentioned here I forgot all about it.
Very shortly lived, first players and discs released.

"On March 31, 2006, Toshiba released their first consumer-based HD DVD player in Japan at ¥110,000 (US$934).[29] HD DVD was released in the United States on April 18, 2006,[30] with players priced at $499 and $799."
"On February 19, 2008, Toshiba announced plans to discontinue development, marketing and manufacturing of HD DVD players while still providing product support and after-sale service to consumers of the format (including firmware updates), effectively making the platform obsolete.'

HD DVD - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ouch that was a quick and bloody format war, BluRay was dancing on DVD's grave. LOL
Folks can say what they will about BD but it's an excellent medium with data room to support just about any need.
Unfortunately like all physical media, for better or worse, the streaming platforms have aimed the parting shots.
I can only hope the bandwidth needed to offer lossless streaming of everything we desire will be a reality in the not to far off future.
At my age I think I'll be working with what we currently have for the duration.


Thanks Chrispy 5.1 of Meridian Lossless Packaging, I was pretty sure DVD-Audio was.

I've seen 5.0 mentioned when I did a little searching, too (and makes me wonder if it was more a quad recording to begin with)

 

[raif71]

I'd forgotten about hd dvd until someone mentioned it here. Yeah there were some competition going on between bluray and hd-dvd back then (between 10 - 15 years back?)

 

[pablolie]

...

I frequently notice annoying motion artifacts and posterisation introduced by the low bitrate compression used by streamers. I rarely, if ever, notice the same with bluray discs.

...

Note that the situation is very different in video vs audio. Lossless audio at 16/44, 24/48 or even 24/192 are easily possible, so this is what we should aim to purchase. For video, the data rates are far more challenging and so lossy compression is needed, in that situation we should look for the highest data rate available.

Amen.

I am rarely -maybe never?- bothered by occasional video artifacts. I find it easy to live with the, and they never distract from the important bits in the storythe video tells. Who has ever stopped a movie saying "I missed nunaces and definition in the black on the screen"? Video remains hideously resouce intensive if for some reason uncompressed. With audio now we can easily go "Why not?". 1.5Mbps for 16/44 is laughably *nothing* in our current world. Most geographies, anyhow.

 

[raif71]

Amen.

I am rarely -maybe never?- bothered by occasional video artifacts. I find it easy to live with the, and they never distract from the important bits in the storythe video tells. Who has ever stopped a movie saying "I missed nunaces and definition in the black on the screen"? Video remains hideously resouce intensive if for some reason uncompressed. With audio now we can easily go "Why not?". 1.5Mbps for 16/44 is laughably *nothing* in our current world. Most geographies, anyhow.

I was in a video forum maybe 10 years back...now I'm into audio. Anyway back then in the video forums people were talking about how warm a picture rendered with a Sigma Design video chipset was compared to Mediatek chipset for instance. Also last time there were talks about soap opera effect some of the tvs had.

 

[Astrozombie]

I tried watching a movie on YoutubeTV On-Demand, if you think streaming can be terrible............it was awful with about 15 commercial breaks scheduled, I had to stop halfway through, only because it never seems to stream anywhere and I didn't want to have to buy the movie which I probably will eventually.

 

[Chrispy]

I tried watching a movie on YoutubeTV On-Demand, if you think streaming can be terrible............it was awful with about 15 commercial breaks scheduled, I had to stop halfway through, only because it never seems to stream anywhere and I didn't want to have to buy the movie which I probably will eventually.

But not using the youtube premium subscription level? Hate commercials myself....

 

[JSmith]

HD DVD was the better choice, brand wise... as it made sense to the lay public that this was a HD DVD. Blu-ray as a brand didn't make such sense and to most sounded like something fancy they didn't need. If HD DVD won and they marketed it well, along the lines of you need this to make the most out of your new TV... I think things might have been a bit different uptake wise. Most didn't see why they should pay more for blu-ray over DVD.


JSmith

 

[Chrispy]

HD DVD was the better choice, brand wise... as it made sense to the lay public that this was a HD DVD. Blu-ray as a brand didn't make such sense and to most sounded like something fancy they didn't need. If HD DVD won and they marketed it well, along the lines of you need this to make the most out of your new TV... I think things might have been a bit different uptake wise. Most didn't see why they should pay more for blu-ray over DVD.


JSmith

To me the biggest advantage of bluray was the better video resolution and options.....not particularly the audio. I can be quite happy with a lossy dvd soundtrack but really prefer the better video from a bluray.

 

[pablolie]

HD DVD was the better choice, brand wise... a....

"we don't another media..."

 

[JSmith]

"we don't another media..."

Meh... I was hoping for 8K BD's next.


JSmith

 

[diddley]

8k will never reach the top, too expensive and you need a new tv for it and a new player, so i think people stick with 4k

 

[JSmith]

8k will never reach the top

Probably not... sales of 8K TV's have been poor. Not to mention there is barely any 8K content... viewing distances, visual acuity etc.


JSmith

 

[diddley]

Probably not... sales of 8K TV's have been poor. Not to mention there is barely any 8K content... viewing distances, visual acuity etc.


JSmith

you are right no content, i believe for a long time with the intrduction there was only a nature documentary to go with is. don't know if there are more titles but it wont be much.

 

[Andysu]

"we don't another media..."

mad max 3 THX/TAP Dolby Stereo - we don't need another atmos 4k format all we wannt is the THX/TAP thunderdome holman experiment