Blind test: we have a volunteer!!!

[richard12511]

The counterargument to this is that the differences are very subtle to begin with, and an additional A to D conversion plus a D to A conversion plus the amplifier required to get the signal to the end user's headphones add 3 variables that could obscure those subtle alleged differences between these two amplifiers.

That's not a counterargument. In fact, that's exactly what I said . Maybe you misunderstood my point? You're correct that those additional variables very well could obscure a subtle but very real difference, but that's exactly what I said in my post. If the difference between the two is subtle, an in person test is only way to assess that.

I genuinely think that the online challenge proposed by Amir is pointless and he may do a lot of prep work for no tangible benefit. .

This is where I disagree, as I believe there is a point. The point is that it could show that no significant difference exists. If those variables you mention(that I also mentioned) are sufficient to obscure the difference, then we can conclude that the difference must be subtle. There are many speaker comparisons on youtube that have those same variables, and yet it's still very easy hear differences between the different speakers.

 

[Andysu]

 

[bboris77]

That's not a counterargument. In fact, that's exactly what I said . Maybe you misunderstood my point? You're correct that those additional variables very well could obscure a subtle but very real difference, but that's exactly what I said in my post. If the difference between the two is subtle, an in person test is only way to assess that.



This is where I disagree, as I believe there is a point. The point is that it could show that no significant difference exists. If those variables you mention(that I also mentioned) are sufficient to obscure the difference, then we can conclude that the difference must be subtle. There are many speaker comparisons on youtube that have those same variables, and yet it's still very easy hear differences between the different speakers.

I did not misunderstand. I just wanted to clarify that it is not only a simple A/D conversion as you stated. Amir's proposed online test includes an additional D/A conversion and an amplifier variable. These two are both at the participant's end and are going to make the test way too subjective. I get what you are trying to say, that if the differences in how these components sound were night and day, none of that would matter. However, I think we can all safely agree that these differences were never going to be that dramatic despite what traditional YouTube reviewers would seem to imply, including GO. I am sure they exaggerate these perceived subtle differences to convey a point and make their reviews more entertaining.

 

[hardisj]

And ill donate 100% of ad income on that vid to the charity

Which, to be fair, will probably be maybe a few hundred bucks at the end of its life. At about $0.02/video (typical revenue from what I can tell), you'd need 50k views to get $1k USD. I don't see that video getting above the 50k view ballpark.


*Note: I'm not taking sides. I just know that people who don't have a YouTube channel grossly overestimate what YT pays out. It's literal pennies.

 

[MDT]

Will Amir be using MQA for delivering these files? After all, we wouldn't want the subtle differences to get "blurred" by mere lossless formats

(In case it's needed, the above is just a joke...)

On a series note, I agree with others that there are too many variables with this approach that the results will be discounted by any fanatics on either side. I still believe the original plan would be the best experiment to run (I don't really care for the original bet or any intentions - I just think we should not waste an opportunity when we have willing participants from both sides of the divide.)

 

[Andysu]

I double blind listened to this few nights ago and thought where is the sound of the exhale? That so used to hearing on Laserdisc PCM mono mix, or analog depends on the mood I am into selecting different sound formats on the Laserdisc.

saved at url time. listen to after he says "under wraps" exhale though nose.

Original mono VHS

bluray version of that rubbish dtshdma - with the rubbish blu disc with DNR it's best watched blinded folded.

Personally I prefer the Laserdisc mono mix sounds way better than the VHS thou still sourced from the same, just non of that blu dtshdma rubbish as I don't buy dtshdma rubbish blu discs Near Field mixes rubbish anymore.

 

[hardisj]

Not to mention the multitone test;

View attachment 133679

JSmith

Yep! MTD is more dense and telling that simple IMD. That said, I still think neither are necessary for electronics (maybe this is what Amir was getting at?).

I'm wondering if this whole MQA fiasco was designed to attack ASR and you... let him digest that conspiracy.

JSmith

You lost me here.

 

[hardisj]

Here's a fun idea that likely won't gain traction but I'm gonna brain dump anyway.


How about Golden-Hair-Surprise and Amiracleman have a live debate about their thoughts on measurements vs subjective analysis. No test; just debate. Talk it out. Air grievances about their (obvious) disdain for each other.

I can host it on my YT channel and I can moderate it, Presidential Debate style. Set it up for charity; all monetization goes to charity. Questions can be submitted via a $20+ super chat and all super chats go to a pre-chosen charity.

I'm a neutral third party because sometimes Amir and I fight like step-sisters who resent each other but then come together for holidays to share our mutual respect (or, at least, I think Amir has some respect for me). As for Golden, I think he's been dropping shady sh*t-talking on other forums but I appreciated what I felt was an objective-minded MQA dismantling. So, I'd be happy to tell one of the two to quit yapping at any point in time.

Or find another YT channel. Doesn't have to be me.

Either that, or they just do a live PPV fight.

Otherwise, I think it makes sense to just close this thread and everyone go home.


This is said with my tongue in my cheek and also hanging out of my mouth like an excited dog. I really would be willing to do a live debate on my channel (or, again, any channel). It might be interesting, it would possibly help stop the multiple thread quabbling and the money raised would go toward a good cause.

 

[Andysu]

Here is my Double blind mask listening test. It masks out the frequency noise.

 

[Andysu]

Here is my quad blind mask listening test. It certainly masked out the frequency THD jitter noise.

 

[Andysu]

Even Sooty, did the double blind single blind listening test with his hearing range 40Hz to 90KHz he can hear a mouse fart with THD jitter at 1000 feet away.

 

[Jinjuku]

I've had my wife speak with some colleagues that are PhD's in perceptual research. The skinny: If 30-45 people wanted to kick in a $1000 per we could fund a research study.

We would have to define what the ask is and understand that we, as well as others, need to set aside their biases. I'd be willing to kick in $2000.

 

[TK750]

I hate to be that grumpy individual but is there any chance we could reduce the obvious thread pollution? There is enough in the bickering back and forth as it is. All I've gained from the past few pages is that humour is not a strong point for some.

 

[Andysu]

$2k ^ Daylight Blind listening robbery.

 

[pozz]

You lost me here.

Read this and the post below it for the origin of the conspiracy theory comments: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-technical-analysis.10886/page-10#post-345968

 

[raif71]

I double blind listened to this few nights ago and thought where is the sound of the exhale? That so used to hearing on Laserdisc PCM mono mix, or analog depends on the mood I am into selecting different sound formats on the Laserdisc.

saved at url time. listen to after he says "under wraps" exhale though nose.

Original mono VHS

bluray version of that rubbish dtshdma - with the rubbish blu disc with DNR it's best watched blinded folded.

Personally I prefer the Laserdisc mono mix sounds way better than the VHS thou still sourced from the same, just non of that blu dtshdma rubbish as I don't buy dtshdma rubbish blu discs Near Field mixes rubbish anymore.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

It seemed clear that the agreement was that @GoldenOne was going to create a video showing that the amps were level-matched. On the video, a friend would switch (or not) the amps based on a random number generation. Golden could toggle between them with a passive switch. If he could differentiate between them to a .05 level, he passed the test.

Suddenly, Amir and others are saying that’s not good enough. Now it’s about it’s about running the amps through an ADC and seeing if other people can tell the difference between the resulting files. Why? That’s clearly not relevant to whether Golden could or couldn’t differentiate between amps.

 

[Andysu]

Even a blind man can see 21 pages is far too long.

View attachment 133738

 

[Roland]

It’s disappointing that ASR’s first and only objective test of whether amps and dacs that measure the same sound the same has descended into farce. I guess we’ll never know the answer.

 

[Andysu]

Blinding double and quad blind listening is just BS at end of the day, it is nothing more than manipulation and I get enough of that crap with the Denon AVC-X8500H.