I still find it strange that no one here seems to notice that turntable A is so unstable that it can't even reproduce the record in tune. Just listen to the guitar in the section from 14 to 31 seconds and it should be pretty obvious that there are severe problems with that turntable. Is it a speed problem that causing it, or what?
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Blind test to try for yourself immediately: $ 78 turntable against $ 500,000 turntable
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Yorkshire Mouth
Major Contributor
Zombie thread alert, but here goes.
This test would appear to show that the AR-XA turntable is 'good enough'. It was $78 in the '60s, but trying a standard inflation calculator isn't going to work, as we need to take into account the huge jump in both knowledge and technology since then.
So, given that this is ASR, where it's necessary to compare apples with apples, I'll ask this question. Which currently available turntable is closest in spec to the AR-XA? I'm talking about what we know about build features, as well as objective measurements. And if there are lots/several, which is cheapest?
This test would appear to show that the AR-XA turntable is 'good enough'. It was $78 in the '60s, but trying a standard inflation calculator isn't going to work, as we need to take into account the huge jump in both knowledge and technology since then.
So, given that this is ASR, where it's necessary to compare apples with apples, I'll ask this question. Which currently available turntable is closest in spec to the AR-XA? I'm talking about what we know about build features, as well as objective measurements. And if there are lots/several, which is cheapest?
I can’t see how this could be a meaningful turntable comparison if they are using different cartridges. Assuming low enough W&F and rumble, it’s my opinion that the cartridge, alignment, tone arm, and phono stage loading will be more significant than the turntable itself.
Yorkshire Mouth
Major Contributor
Point taken, but nontheless. Getting a turntable of a similar spec must be the first step, the rest to follow. As I saym this is ASR, and you want to remove as many variables as possible.
Bland_username42069
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Strange claim made by Fremer in that AVS thread. I’d be interested to know which pro audio adc company claims they can’t make transparent converters
“A pro audio manufacturer who makes among the most highly regarded A/D converters you can buy for studio use (most everyone here would recognize the name) called me recently and said that while the best A/D converters have greatly improved over the years, there's still a ways to go before they are transparent to the source, and the ways in which they are not are substantial and meaningful and have a direct impact upon for how long one can listen before becoming uncomfortable.”
“A pro audio manufacturer who makes among the most highly regarded A/D converters you can buy for studio use (most everyone here would recognize the name) called me recently and said that while the best A/D converters have greatly improved over the years, there's still a ways to go before they are transparent to the source, and the ways in which they are not are substantial and meaningful and have a direct impact upon for how long one can listen before becoming uncomfortable.”
Yorkshire Mouth
Major Contributor
Strange indeed, as everything recorded digitally has to go through an ADC.
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DSJR
Master Contributor
In its basic tech form, the AR XA deck, where it mattered, was in a different league from the feedback prone rumble boxes of the 60s. The sub chassis was properlty balanced around the platter and tonearm mass, which the loosely descended Thorens 150 and spiced up RD11/LP12 most certainly weren't once tonearms got heavier (believe me, I know in this instance), the AR arm was an inspiration and actually really worked well with mid price MM pickups if the audio peeps ripping them off and fitting all sorts on instead only knew).
So for me, a properly fettled XA or better, the XB with built-in cueing device, is still way more than good enough, even today, the arm happy with an Ortofon OM or AT 500 series pickup I'd suggest!
I actually played an LP album all the way through last night while doing some work on the main PC where the second rig is located. Rega P3-2000/24V motor and with fitted EBLT with humble Carbon Pro elliptical stylus. Using headphones, The original CD of said record (Colour Of Spring) didn't sound hugely different here to the original vinyl copy and with said belt, the deck runs true to speed rather than slightly too fast, so for once I put the CD to one side. After years thinking that the later Rega 3 was a bit 'stark,' There I was, being drawn to the music instead of reading up what I was supposed to be reading and despite the cheap pickup, I was following what the background instruments were playing, admiring the front-back perspectives in the mix and having a whale of a time enjoying this forty-year-old classic album
Using headphones and iems, tends to work well still with my gammy ears, but speakers is the current issue to sort out for me...I mainly listen via Roon, but when I do fire up my turntable, it amazes me how good such old technology still sounds. No question in my mind that good digital data with a recording with good dynamic range is superior. But it’s still fun to enjoy vinyl for what it is/was.In its basic tech form, the AR XA deck, where it mattered, was in a different league from the feedback prone rumble boxes of the 60s. The sub chassis was properlty balanced around the platter and tonearm mass, which the loosely descended Thorens 150 and spiced up RD11/LP12 most certainly weren't once tonearms got heavier (believe me, I know in this instance), the AR arm was an inspiration and actually really worked well with mid price MM pickups if the audio peeps ripping them off and fitting all sorts on instead only knew).
So for me, a properly fettled XA or better, the XB with built-in cueing device, is still way more than good enough, even today, the arm happy with an Ortofon OM or AT 500 series pickup I'd suggest!
I actually played an LP album all the way through last night while doing some work on the main PC where the second rig is located. Rega P3-2000/24V motor and with fitted EBLT with humble Carbon Pro elliptical stylus. Using headphones, The original CD of said record (Colour Of Spring) didn't sound hugely different here to the original vinyl copy and with said belt, the deck runs true to speed rather than slightly too fast, so for once I put the CD to one side. After years thinking that the later Rega 3 was a bit 'stark,' There I was, being drawn to the music instead of reading up what I was supposed to be reading and despite the cheap pickup, I was following what the background instruments were playing, admiring the front-back perspectives in the mix and having a whale of a time enjoying this forty-year-old classic album
What cracks me up every time is the fact that nobody in these threads is even questioning the validity of ADC converted vinyl audio for comparison purposes. Not even the vinyl enthusiasts. They're all indirectly admitting the ADC is better by orders of magnitude, or else the method wouldn't even be valid.
Yorkshire Mouth
Major Contributor
Whilst I take your point (and share your general philosophy) I’m not sure that’s strictly correct.
If you had two turntables, one super and one absolute garbage - a pair which everyone could spot the difference - and you recorded a vinyl album on both onto a poor cassette recorder, I bet you’d spot the difference between the two cassettes.
I suppose it depends what the specific deficiencies were.
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The point is all properly designed ADCs are transparent, and most of the others good enough. Remember the review of the Behringer DEQ2496? I used one for many years as my DAC, while analog signals passed through in switched off mode (where input and output are directly connected by relay). Once I tried to hear a difference between switched off and switched on without any processing (with ADC->DAC): I failed.
VientoB
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Let's be real - ADCs are far more accurate than vinyl. Especially in frequency response, detail and dynamics which are the main differences between turntables.
Not only that, but the DACs they're playing the samples back through are also similarly better.
Even those on a phone's headphone jack, or in Bluetooth earbuds. Which is most probably the superior comparison listening method as opposed to even really good speakers in a room. Lol.