Black Lion Revolution 2x2 Review (Audio Interface)

[Chez]

Black Lion makes a living modding other actually decent interfaces to be just as bad as this. Amusing.

BLA rep stated this unit sounds better than any unit they've modded. This review certainly doesn't bode well for their marketing campaign. Several retailers' creditability have also jumped on the hype wagon, one even comparing it to a Burl. Come on now.
I didn't like that it is buss powered. Even though I don't possess a rocket science degree, there's an apparent compromise regarding power availability from a computer power supply for ADC/DAC, headphone, main output & phantom power. To be bettered by Berringher - wheeewww

 

[respice finem]

...I'm not convinced a locking solution is always good. I stopped using Neutrik locking jacks for headphones after pulling my stuff off my desk by forgetting I had headphones on. Since I'm not doing a live show I'd rather just have one cable disconnect rather than cause a mess.

OK, USB-C is not as sturdy as XLR, similarly there's a reason many headphones have those flimsy looking mini jack sockets, but, for backwards compatibility, I think the lockable Neutrik will only be lockable with their own cable plugs, so you can choose by cable if you want locking or not.

 

[respice finem]

It should still work, I wonder if the Gen 2 ports are off a different controller and there are UEFI settings preventing it from working at High Speed. If it's AMD, the USB controller IP is licensed from ASMedia and it's probably never going to be 100% as good as Intel's XHCI controllers and drivers...

Yes, AMD, and third-party addon chip was my first thought, but the manufacturer's description states otherwise:
https://www.asus.com/de/motherboards-components/motherboards/all-series/prime-b450m-a/techspec/
3rd/2nd/1st Gen AMD Ryzen™/ 2nd and 1st Gen AMD Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics/ Athlon™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics Processors :
4 x USB 3.1 Gen 1 port(s) (4 at back panel, blue)
AMD B450 chipset :
2 x USB 3.1 Gen 2 port(s) (2 at back panel, )
AMD B450 chipset :
2 x USB 3.1 Gen 1 port(s) (2 at mid-board)
AMD B450 chipset :
4 x USB 2.0/1.1 port(s) (4 at mid-board)
The Gen1 back ports are from the APU itself, and the Gen2 from their own chipset, so yes maybe it's a problem with AMD's implementation. I might use the USB 2.0 at mid board with a slot bracket cable, but as long as the RME works with the Gen1, no need, just an interesting observation regarding compatibility.

 

[respice finem]

BLA rep stated this unit sounds better than any unit they've modded...

There we are again - it sounds better, for him? With hearing being individually subjective, anyone can state anything and no one can prove them wrong, at least as long as they don't say "sounds better for everyone".

 

[gaderson]

OK, USB-C is not as sturdy as XLR, similarly there's a reason many headphones have those flimsy looking mini jack sockets, but, for backwards compatibility, I think the lockable Neutrik will only be lockable with their own cable plugs, so you can choose by cable if you want locking or not.

But, according to an EMI engineer (who works in a Faraday cage), did state that it has much better EMI rejection and doesn't put out a lot of electrical noise — a more 'shielded' connector. (But, that Thunderbolt 3/4 and multiple flavors of USB use the same connector is classic Big Tech.)
I must also say I do like Amir 'eating the dog food' i.e. being a former Microsoft employee he has to deal with the idiosyncrasies of Windows drivers. While I here just 'plug-and-play' on my Mac.

p.s. I'd also be curious about the Black Lion Audio mods. I've actually been looking at one of their Mic preamps, but, will probably lean towards a different manufacturer (seems some vendors do have the M4 in stock).

 

[respice finem]

Oh yeah, Windows drivers, sadomasochism for the masses since 1985

 

[LTig]

p.s. I'd also be curious about the Black Lion Audio mods. I've actually been looking at one of their Mic preamps, but, will probably lean towards a different manufacturer (seems some vendors do have the M4 in stock).

I would not do any mods without measurements showing that the performance has improved.

 

[gaderson]

I would not do any mods without measurements showing that the performance has improved.

Yes, it seems all the mods done tend to be the ’how it sounds’ variety. Not a mod to make it more functional, e.g, add more/better I/O or better more functional firmware. I was skeptical before, but after these data showing they even have trouble ‘starting from scratch’ I wouldn’t even bother. Especially something like the Universal Audio Apollo kit that measures so well, or even the RME stuff. I also remember reading comments from a audio engineer tech that half the connections they just ‘solder some wires on’ — no kilobuck cables for them.

 

[Chez]

I seriously question the USB C connection for semi "pro" gear. I don't reckon it will stand up longterm.

Is it like the Focusrite 2i2v3 where the USB C is not actually USB 3.0, it's just 2.0 but uses the type C connector?

Yes, per BLA it uses USB 2.0 protocol

 

[Chez]

Amir, Thank you & the donor for allowing for this review.
Out of curiosity, was a listening evaluation performed?

Any comments regarding BLA's Macro MMC clocking / PG-i power filtering technology? - I guess results speak volumes

I assume part of the embedded cost is for the 4 pieces of software which can amount to 1/2 the cost of the unit. if the unit was say $200 , how would this unit rate vs units in the $200ish range?

 

[enricoclaudio]

I personally own a Black Lion Micro Clock MKII which I use with my Yamaha M7CL sound board. I think Black Lion make some of the best world clocks available and I don’t hesitate to recommend them. Would I purchase a DAC or any other of their mod products? Don’t think so.

 

[hege]

but I don't think Thesycon is janky. Despite whatever Amir's trouble with the drivers are

I think Amir still doesn't reset his PC after each test, which would be a best practise.. no wonder things get messy when you install and uninstall different drivers all day..

 

[T1M0]

Im having a serious the emperor's new clothes moment here. I mean - the whole thing rustled my jimmies enough to create an account here. I bought this thing 2 weeks ago and it sounds fine - great even. When I saw this review yesterday that kinda took the wind out of my sails. I felt stupid and ripped off. I still have two weeks left to return it to the vendor and was dead set on sending it back. But I had some doubts in the back of my mind because when I first got it I felt that it was a noticable improvement over my Motu M2 (from memory - since I had to RMA it - screen died). I also got positive feedback from people on Discord (even with the crazy compression and all) regarding my mic quality (no such remarks with the Motu). So to put my mind at ease I conducted some blind tests today (BLA Revolution 2x2 vs Burson Playmate). While I could reliably tell them apart neither of them was noticably worse than the other (the BLA sounds a bit wider while the Burson has more detail). I finally concluded that im going to keep it. Go ahead crucify me for my crimes against objectivism. Im already dead inside.

https://imgur.com/yzoJ7Uz

 

[Chez]

My guess is that BLA put emphasis on the analog end parts but its disappointing that their marketing touts clocking & power conditioning as well as low noise which have been proven to be contrary. In fairness, I question whether the position of the balance pot which would certainly alter some test results such as the output voltage. Stereo width can be altered by phase anomalies. I wonder which $2K units BLA used to compare the 2x2 with. Too bad they didn't just come out with a real no compromise AD/DA without the software frills. The ADI-2 pro FS R is a great unit & much more complex, superior to the 2x2, but is also 5x the cost.

 

[Promit]

What USB connector is better for a USB interface? Please enlighten me and point me to the USB over XLR standard.

Well you’ve already said you don’t care for locking connectors so clearly an XLR or ethercon type solution would not be for you. I can pull up industrial type USB connectors all day long but I assume you have access to Google and we’re in agreement that this and most audio interfaces are not designed for more than desktop or studio rackmount use.

Personally I agree with some of the other comments that the original type B connector feels more durable, more positive, and more consistent across devices. IME connect/disconnect cycle tests/specs are just not representative of real world wear and tear. There was a time that people would use PCI express cards with connector breakouts, but that really seems to be on the way out. It’s unfortunate that there’s no standard for ruggedized USB, leaving companies to hack together proprietary solutions.

 

[Metalear]

It's interesting because I've seen some people really praising this unit that generally aren't about hyping up the latest interface. The demos I've listened to (only online) do seem to have a nice quality to recorded material when compared to clips of something like the MOTU M4 which I thought sounded kind of sterile or weak in comparison. It seems there may be some analog qualities that make for a noisier but perhaps "warmer" input, but on the flipside, I'd want my DAC to always be as clean as possible and that doesn't seem to be the case here at all.

 

[Deleted member 12642]

I can't say I find my m4 to be sterile on the adc or dac sides, what you put in is what you get out with it.

 

[AnalogSteph]

anyone know what DAC chip this thing uses?

The ton of out-of-band noise really suggests an old Cirrus chip. Dynamic range would be in line with a CS4270 and rather a waste of a CS4271 or CS4272, but since distortion is so low it could be one of those as well. Then I really have to wonder how they managed to lose all of that dynamic range... a good CS4272 implementation (e.g. in the TASCAM UR-2x2HR or Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd gen) gets to about 110 dB(A) both A/D and D/A.

With these things, "design by ear" just doesn't work, no change from a decade ago.

Realistically, this interface ought to be sub-$200 even with the most glaring issues fixed.

 

[chris719]

Personally I agree with some of the other comments that the original type B connector feels more durable, more positive, and more consistent across devices.

Except the data shows you're not correct here. Higher insertion force doesn't mean it's more durable or consistent. The tolerances are much better on USB-C as is the wear over repeated insertion cycles. Neither one is "rugged" by military or industrial connector standards.

USB B is more often a through-hole connector because it's very prone to being ripped off a PCB in surface-mount-only form. I would not confuse that with durability. There are USB C connectors with board guides / posts.

 

[KingRolo]

Wow!!! People pay big bucks for Black Lion mods on there pro Audio interfaces