Bit Perfect Yes or No

[luft262]

In a theoretical situation where one didn't need DSP because they were using a headphones that didn't need EQ would bit perfect be an improvement? For example, if one were listening to music in Hi-Res on Qobuz using the Topping A90 and D90 amp and dac and were using nice over the head earphones that Armin said didn't need EQ would bit perfect be an improvement in such a situation?

 

[radix]

In a theoretical situation where one didn't need DSP because they were using a headphones that didn't need EQ would bit perfect be an improvement? For example, if one were listening to music in Hi-Res on Qobuz using the Topping A90 and D90 amp and dac and were using nice over the head earphones that Armin said didn't need EQ would bit perfect be an improvement in such a situation?

AFAIK, Qobuz HiRes is 24-bit PCM (up to 192 kHz). It is not DSD. I'm pretty sure that PCM material has dithering. The biggest difference would likely be what sort of low pass (brickwall) you use based on the dac.

Maybe there is some confusion in the thread about the definition of "bit perfect?" Some use it to mean you hear exactly what is encoded on the media, while others think of it as DSD (sacd).

Anyway, no headphone has perfect rendering. If you look at the FR of a headphone, even one that is recommended without EQ, it's all over the place.

For example, Amir recommends the Aeon RT without EQ. The oratory measurements show that it's anything but flat. Or look at Amir's measurements (also attached).

So I don't see the point of trying to bit-twiddle super fine response when it's all going through the sausage grinder.

 

[ZolaIII]

In a theoretical situation where one didn't need DSP because they were using a headphones that didn't need EQ would bit perfect be an improvement? For example, if one were listening to music in Hi-Res on Qobuz using the Topping A90 and D90 amp and dac and were using nice over the head earphones that Armin said didn't need EQ would bit perfect be an improvement in such a situation?

Bit perfect is word (computer word) perfect from the precision point and nothing else (and beatstreams are cut to word length then processed).
Show me the hedaphones which will do program (average) 108 dB LSP (meaning bass will go up to the pain threshold 116~120 dB which is 18~20 bit) with lo enough distortion and that it doesn't really need EQ while playing like that (such doesn't exist and if it did people actually hear different). Now imagine someone crazy enough to listen to it like that. So you need it but in recording level not reproduction one or how you will listen to it (72 normally to 85~90 dB very loud 12 to 15 bit's). Of course however you always need a DSP (equipment, physics, individual hearing...).

 

[JRS]

As yourself and @anotherhobby stated: access to EQ.
Choosing to avoid source signal modification in the name of abiding by a misguided principle is crippling to the audio experience.
No speaker or headphone is perfect, so why avoid one of the few non-destructive tools available to make their performance better?

Hear, hear! I lived through don't you dare use tone controls, they are so gauche days, and still a credo among the less enlightened high end money no object crowd, Besides who said a speaker had to be flat?

 

[Lambda]

In a theoretical situation where one didn't need DSP because they were using a headphones that didn't need EQ would bit perfect be an improvement?

No.
Your headphones don't play Bits...

In practice, oversampling is implemented in order to reduce cost and improve performance of an analog-to-digital converter (ADC) or digital-to-analog converter (DAC).[1] When oversampling by a factor of N, the dynamic range also increases a factor of N because there are N times as many possible values for the sum. However, the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) increases by

, because summing up uncorrelated noise increases its amplitude b

, while summing up a coherent signal increases its average by N. As a result, the SNR increases by

.

For instance, to implement a 24-bit converter, it is sufficient to use a 20-bit converter that can run at 256 times the target sampling rate. Combining 256 consecutive 20-bit samples can increase the SNR by a factor of 16, effectively adding 4 bits to the resolution and producing a single sample with 24-bit resolution.

Oversampling - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/mt-017.pdf

To convert it to analog it needs to be Filtered. The filtering happens mostly in Digital Domain.
(all) modern and good Performing DACs use Oversampling and Digital filtering.

 

[Offler]

In a theoretical situation where one didn't need DSP because they were using a headphones that didn't need EQ would bit perfect be an improvement? For example, if one were listening to music in Hi-Res on Qobuz using the Topping A90 and D90 amp and dac and were using nice over the head earphones that Armin said didn't need EQ would bit perfect be an improvement in such a situation?

Simplify the question...

"Do I need any EQ correction?"

At some point, if its just you listening you can keep it subjective.

 

[Vincent Kars]

would bit perfect be an improvement in such a situation?

If I have to choose between resampling twice, my PC resample and my DAC over- or up-sample or resampling one time (the DAC) I prefer the latter so bit perfect.
Don't ask me if I'm able to hear the difference in a unsighted test.

 

[pallas]

Now with newer DACs with inbuilt PEQ it makes totally sense to use bit-perfect, doesn't it?
Like this you'd have only one re-sample taking place for the EQ.

 

[Jimbob54]

Now with newer DACs with inbuilt PEQ it makes totally sense to use bit-perfect, doesn't it?
Like this you'd have only one re-sample taking place for the EQ.

Assuming the dac peq is well implented and does what you need I would agree.

 

[JeremyFife]

Bit-perfect delivery of the signal to my DSP please (why would I want it changed, there's no point) ... then I'll digitally mangle the signal to suit

 

[Snarfie]

f i usfhhhh-hhhh
This is especially for all of you headphone guys out there. Do you value bit perfect? As far as I can tell, when using bit perfect on my android phone, which means using the "Audio Player Pro" app, I can't use eq or eq apps like Wavelet. Do you think bit perfect makes a difference? If it does, is it worth the loss of eq?

Thanks!

I

This is especially for all of you headphone guys out there. Do you value bit perfect? As far as I can tell, when using bit perfect on my android phone, which means using the "Audio Player Pro" app, I can't use eq or eq apps like Wavelet. Do you think bit perfect makes a difference? If it does, is it worth the loss of eq?

Thanks!

If i use a wasapi driver instead regular win driver ( for my speakers) i can't hear zipp difference despite wasapi avoid the windows sound managment environment what add to come closer to a bit perfect result. However if i shutdown my room correction DSP software hell break loose because of my horrible room modes. The same with my headphone when i disable Wavelet. IMO no contest between bit perfect an DSP.

 

[RayDunzl]

I have a 3 CD budget collection of Charles Ives Piano music.

One channel on all three discs is polarity reversed.

This is a case where altering half of those perfect bits is quite necessary, because those perfect bits sound like crap.

 

[kchap]

I have a 3 CD budget collection of Charles Ives Piano music.

One channel on all three discs is polarity reversed.

This is a case where altering half of those perfect bits is quite necessary, because those perfect bits sound like crap.

How did you discover the problem? If it was me I would have put the CDs to one side and chastised myself for falling for the trap of buying cheap CDs.

 

[raindance]

I have a 3 CD budget collection of Charles Ives Piano music.

One channel on all three discs is polarity reversed.

This is a case where altering half of those perfect bits is quite necessary, because those perfect bits sound like crap.

I'll raise you one... I've got a CD of a live performance where just one instrument, the keyboard, is phase reversed in one channel... Amazing effect though. When the keyboard plays the sound comes from behind me.

 

[RayDunzl]

How did you discover the problem?

It sounded very wrong for solo piano.

I put an oscilloscope on the speaker leads.

The channels generally moved in opposite directions.

At the time. I didn't have a polarity switch, so I reversed the speaker leads whan I wanted to listen to it.