Big news coming from Sound United in 2023!

[Flak]

Dirac does do delay and level matching.

That's correct... including NAD devices

 

[ryanosaur]

That's correct... including NAD devices

Any hint on when we might expect to hear some news about Dirac availability and SU?

 

[Chromatischism]

But you still needed to enter your speaker distances first to get it in the ballpark. Then you need to do a reference level calibration.

I can see it now. People trying to compare Audyssey to Dirac, with no way to level match.

 

[Sancus]

The processors I've seen that use Dirac(HTP-1, JBL, Arcam) auto-detect level and distance. So I would expect this will too. They don't require you to enter your speaker distances, as far as I know. They *do* give you a page that allows manual ballpark level-set, but that makes sense, since they haven't got amplifiers built in, and so cannot modify their gain.

 

[Chromatischism]

The processors I've seen that use Dirac(HTP-1, JBL, Arcam) auto-detect level and distance. So I would expect this will too. They don't require you to enter your speaker distances, as far as I know.

They never come out and say that you are required to do anything. You just notice later on with measurements that things are a little off.

 

[Sancus]

They never come out and say that you are required to do anything. You just notice later on with measurements that things are a little off.

Ah, well if we're talking accuracy, Audyssey makes small mistakes too so that's nothing new. I always even up the LCR distances manually with a laser tape measure.

 

[Chromatischism]

Ah, well if we're talking accuracy, Audyssey makes small mistakes too so that's nothing new. I always even up the LCR distances manually with a laser tape measure.

Since it's measuring acoustic delay and not distance, I would not. It's only using a conversion to display "distance". It really needs to be dropped from AVRs to stop confusing users.

 

[Sancus]

Since it's measuring acoustic delay and not distance, I would not. It's only using a conversion to display "distance". It really needs to be dropped from AVRs to stop confusing users.

I run my Genelecs through GLM first, so if Audyssey comes out with adjustments that contradict the GLM calibration AND the actual distances, I know which I'm trusting.

Audibly, there isn't usually much difference, but I did catch it dragging the soundstage to the right a little bit once in my current setup. Equalizing the delays fixed it.

 

[TheAVInsider]

Marantz CINEMA Series Home Theater AVR Receivers Comparison

We compare the 2022 Marantz CINEMA AVR Series home theater receivers in our review. Learn all about the feature and performance differences between the models.

www.audioadvice.com

Marantz CINEMA 50 9.4 Channel Home Theater Receiver

CINEMA 50 is equally ideal for dedicated theater space or a multi-use living room. It features 9 x 110 watts of builtin legendary Marantz amplification, six 8K UHD inputs, HEOS® streaming built-in, room correction with Audyssey MultEQ XT32, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, IMAX Enhanced and Auro3D, plus a...

www.audioadvice.com

Marantz CINEMA 60 7.2 Channel Home Theater Receiver

CINEMA 60 is ideal for dedicated home theaters or mixed-use living rooms. With 7x100 watts per channel, six HDMI inputs (three are 8K UHD), HEOS built-in streaming and Audyssey MultEQ XT, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X plus numerous inputs and outputs including preamp out mode and dual subwoofer outs...

www.audioadvice.com

 

[DrStranger]

So, for me who never owned a Denon or Marantz, which brand is more quality/is concidered as the step-up? The 50 is indeed very similar to 3800.

I like the design, but not the tiny circle display.

 

[delta76]

They are essentially same company. Marantz is more luxury brand. The inner of same product lines have been almost identical except HDAM module by Marantz. Better go with Denon, cheaper yet better measured

 

[DrStranger]

I saw on one of the country pages of Marantz, they offer a total of 5 year warranty if you register your product. Unfortunatley not for North America or Asia, mostly european countries.

 

[peng]

So, for me who never owned a Denon or Marantz, which brand is more quality/is concidered as the step-up? The 50 is indeed very similar to 3800.

I like the design, but not the tiny circle display.

The price of the 3800+Dirac DLBC may still be cheaper than the Marantz's. Or that $800 difference could be spent on an external amp such as buckeye's 350/500W 8/4 ohms ($749 shipped) Hypex based amp. Would that make your decision a little easier?

 

[DrStranger]

The price of the 3800+Dirac DLBC may still be cheaper than the Marantz's. Or that $800 difference could be spent on an external amp such as buckeye's 350/500W 8/4 ohms ($749 shipped) Hypex based amp. Would that make your decision a little easier?

My heart wants RZ50 due to value as well as lower temp than Deno's (?), but impossible to get here. I am still finding 1850 dollar for the 3800 to be too much and still have to pay aditional 199... The historical cost for 3700 was between 1000-1200, so the new jump is hard.

Maybe I just need to keep cool and wait...

 

[Masza]

I run my Genelecs through GLM first, so if Audyssey comes out with adjustments that contradict the GLM calibration AND the actual distances, I know which I'm trusting.

Audibly, there isn't usually much difference, but I did catch it dragging the soundstage to the right a little bit once in my current setup. Equalizing the delays fixed it.

The filters created by the GLM utilize DSP in the SAM Genelecs. That adds delay which means the actual distance isn't the distance based on acoustic delay measured by the Audyssey.

I would manually correct delays/distances between front left and right if the soundfield is distorted but otherwise it's better not to decrease the distance to the actual distance afterwards for those GLM Genelecs if you have Genelecs without it or speakers by completely different manufacturers because otherwise your speakers' sound output isn't timed correctly and the soundfield may suffer.

 

[Sancus]

The filters created by the GLM utilize DSP in the SAM Genelecs. That adds delay which means the actual distance isn't the distance based on acoustic delay measured by the Audyssey.

I think you're missing the point. The absolute delay is irrelevant. After GLM calibration, the delay for each speaker as measured by Audyssey at the listening position MUST be the same unless GLM did not set its own delays correctly.

TBH last I checked adding notch and shelf filters in GLM does not actually change the amount of delay either, but I'm not sure if that's always the case or not. There is a few ms of delay built into the speakers but it's far less than most other room correction.

 

[Masza]

I think you're missing the point. The absolute delay is irrelevant. After GLM calibration, the delay for each speaker as measured by Audyssey at the listening position MUST be the same unless GLM did not set its own delays correctly.

TBH last I checked adding notch and shelf filters in GLM does not actually change the amount of delay either, but I'm not sure if that's always the case or not. There is a few ms of delay built into the speakers but it's far less than most other room correction.

Yes, the SAM Genelec delay is fixed, 5 ms if I recall. And all calibrated SAM Genelecs in the system should have equal distance after the Audyssey calibration, you are correct in that too.

What I did mean was that if someone has speakers with and without built-in DSP (like me) they should not decrease the distances of the DSP ones to the actual distances. I'm not saying you would do that. But to me it seems that there is confusion among us and some may not understand that the distance determined by Audyssey or some other room correction doesn't always correlate to the actual distance for a reason. As someone said earlier, using term distance is confusing.

 

[ryanosaur]

But to me it seems that there is confusion among us and some may not understand that the distance determined by Audyssey or some other room correction doesn't always correlate to the actual distance for a reason. As someone said earlier, using term distance is confusing.

This is true. It usually comes up in other conversations when discussing Subs. And I agree with the assertions that more ought to be done to educate the user rather than rely on confusing phraseology to define a quirky system.
Distance/Delay, Large/Small, Double Bass... It's not just Audyssey that is to blame.
However, based on the previous and somewhat still reliable paradigm that many users are utilizing passive Speakers, the Distance-to measurement is still largely useful. It is only where a DSP processor is inserted to the chain that this system breaks down.

 

[GXAlan]

From https://www.homecinema-fr.com/news-hcfr-denon-les-integres-2022_2023/

 

[DrStranger]

View attachment 233400

From https://www.homecinema-fr.com/news-hcfr-denon-les-integres-2022_2023/

Now thats a good link of info, that site did not spare anything. Thank you.