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Same here
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Big news coming from Sound United in 2023!
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Same here
wseroyer
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I'm not a big believer in this "it cost more and therefore sounds better", people who buy into this BS are just plain dumb.You’re forgetting that “signature” Marantz sound
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wseroyer
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I can understand that, but the Denon has a usable display.If they're essentially the same, I prefer the look of the Marantz significantly over the Denon. Not $800 significantly mind you
polmuaddib
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Most suffer when they add complexity to their multichannel system. If you add PC, AVR and external amp with ground in the mains, you can expect some form of ground loop. Might not be obvious, but it might be there.
Better a lower SINAD XLR then a high SINAD RCA.
Advantages of optical Hdmi.... (and SPDIF)
I did have some issues some years back, and went through weeks of measurements and experiments to resolve them.... currently all is good.
But yeah, would have saved me loads of heartache and time if the setup had been XLR based!
Can't find the post now but I'm pretty sure that someone claiming to have insider knowledge suggested that SU plans to differentiate Marantz as higher-end relative to Denon, and as a result pre-pros (with xlr pre-outs) would, going forward, only be available from Marantz.
Prepro's of interest might come out from Onkyo and Integra (I believe that their Pioneer Stablemate will be AVR only) - and if they follow recent trends, the prepro's will cost a bit less than the equivalent AVR...
The 710 W consumption is not "maximum". Denon and Marantz never provide the maximum figure like Yamaha's. For Yamaha's you can find their maximum consumption in the owner's manuals but for D+M's I cannot find it anywhere, not even in their service manuals. So we don't really know what Denon's maximum power consumption, and we don't know what the basis is for the 710 W (for the X3800H) shown on the back of the case. Gene has written about it on Audioholic.com and speculated how they came up with number, but that's just his speculation based on information he obtained from Sound United though it sounds reasonable to me.
Receiver Power Consumption Rating vs Output Power Is Not Watt You Think!
Ever wonder how your favorite manufacturer rates power consumption on their AV receivers and how it relates to maximum available output power to your speakers? The answer may surprise you so read on.
www.audioholics.com
Wow! This is the first time I see a AVR/AVP uses one of the near top line Sabre ESS DAC, the 90X8 series, though in this case they still use the K2M type instead of the flag shop non K2M types. So based on DAC chip only, the A1H, and presumable the flag ship Marant prepro will be the one to beat, or it will be the AVM90's if it actually uses the AK4499.
So far the best chips I know used on AVRs/AVPs are the one used in the Anthem AVM90 (don't remember if it is the AK4499 or 4497 and Yamaha's have the ES9026Pro (110 dB SINAD.
The A1H's ES9018K2M has SINAD of 120 dB!! Too bad the AVR-X6700H has the PCM5102A, with SINAD 93 dB
For me, I'm happy I have the AVC-X4700h despite the rather 'low' DAC's... as the 4800 has the same. Yes I would have liked the HD interface, the 4 sub pre-out's, the 'monolithic' amp's, the improved ADSP, the 'built in Japan'-label, the 'full 8K support on HDMI-in' and the improved power supply but..... I don't wanna pay € 1,200.00 more for basically the same machine... I will never use 4 sub's, have my 4700 installed using the Denon app, never drive my system with 11 power amp channels, for a long time to come use 8K as there is so limited input. The € 1,200.00 I spend on a € 699.00 Marantz MM7025 power amp, a big Warfedale sub and a really good Wharfedale center. So I can relax now I know I made the right decision a while ago. Still I'd like to know the advantage of the monolithic amp's; I you look at Amir's test it doesn't bring anything in SINAD between let's say a 6700 or even 8500 and a 3600, 3700 or 4700. Can anyone explain what the advantage should be and that I am missing the point?
You can see in the physical layout differences in the photos comparing the 4700 and 4800. Based on that only, my guess is that, their so call monolithic amps may mean each power amp block is on its own circuit board that could mean in theory, on all else being equal basis, it should be easier to lower the noise level and in dissipating heat. Though you are right, we haven't not seen such benefits translated into better SINAD, SNR, DR etc., from the bench test measurements.
The 710 W consumption is not "maximum". Denon and Marantz never provide the maximum figure like Yamaha's. For Yamaha's you can find their maximum consumption in the owner's manuals but for D+M's I cannot find it anywhere, not even in their service manuals. So we don't really know what Denon's maximum power consumption, and we don't know what the basis is for the 710 W (for the X3800H) shown on the back of the case. Gene has written about it on Audioholic.com and speculated how they came up with number, but that's just his speculation based on information he obtained from Sound United though it sounds reasonable to me.
Receiver Power Consumption Rating vs Output Power Is Not Watt You Think!
Ever wonder how your favorite manufacturer rates power consumption on their AV receivers and how it relates to maximum available output power to your speakers? The answer may surprise you so read on.
If that is true, it is a safety issue. That is because most residential circuits are 15 A, which means 1,800 W, and other devices are typically plugged into them. Every device should have a clear specification of the max. power consumption to avoid circuit overload (a safety margin of at least 20% is recommended, which reduces the standard line to 1,440 W).
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Sure, the circuit breaker will tolerate a short-term overload (the size of which rapidly diminishes with duration), but...
"Generally, it's recommended that the load never exceeds 80 percent of the electrical service's capacity."
FWIW, I took the dimensions of the 3800H's power transformer from the French presentation the other members posted. I am not sure exactly what the "96 x t65" means, but assuming it is the size of the transformer core (as opposed to its exterior) and plugging these numbers into a sample transformer calculator (while keeping the core efficiency at the default 0.82) results in the core area of 6,240 mm^2 and the apparent power of 2,058 VA. Assuming a power factor of 0.75 (cited in Gene's video/article other members posted), the real power would be 1,544 W translating into 12.9 A on a 120 V service line, which exceeds the recommended max. 80% load of 12 A.
(Further assuming a 92% efficiency of the unregulated linear power supply, the internal circuitry would get up to 1,420 W. Subtracting the aforementioned 50 W for the front-end would leave 1,370 W for power amps. At a 65% efficiency, they could yield 822 W. Of course, these are just back-of-the-envelope calculations, as the parameters of various "nannies" inside the AVR are unknown.)
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Oh boy. In the electrical jargon, service = circuit. Another article for your reference:
How to calculate your circuit loads: Avoid overloading your circuits
"For a good rule of thumb, do not exceed eighty percent of the maximum rated load. Refer to the vacuum example. For a fifteen amp circuit, the safe load is 1440 watts. For a twenty amp circuit, the safe load is one thousand nine hundred twenty watts."
If you still are not convinced, google "max recommended load of electrical circuit."
Not really, 15 A circuits are rated 15 A continuous subject to the 80% service capacity rule, the key word is "continuous". Audio amps, AVRs are not light bulbs or electric heaters that could be operated continuously, literally. Very different kind of loads that cannot be compared directly..
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I would suggest you read the actual rule in the NEC code book for completeness.
Buy NFPA 70, National Electrical Code (NEC) Handbook
Order the NFPA 70, National Electrical Code Handbook. The Handbook explains the NEC fully and is available in various print and digital formats.
catalog.nfpa.org
OK, so how many 3800H-type devices is it safe to plug into a single 15 A circuit? Please provide detailed calculations.
I think you may be looking at the information (such as your linked calculator) that is not very relevant for the topic discussed. Power transformers, including those for audio amp applications are generally higher than 90%, more like 95%.
An example:
This one is specified as 94% typ.
The smaller one such as those <300 VA may be less efficient but should still be at or near 90%, E-I core or toroidal.
That's just the transformer, the power supply efficiency overall will obviously be a little lower because of other loss however small.
As to the 80% rule, again that's for a continuous load that does not apply to audio devices such as avrs, and power amps. You can in fact exceed the 1440, even 1800 W for a short duration. As an extreme example, motors and transformers can draw many time, 20 times or even higher of its rated continuous load for a few cycles on start-up, that's why the light bulbs in the house may dim when you first turn on a big power amp, or an AVR, or the furnace fan etc., but you obviously know that already..
