Big full range multi driver speakers?

[olds1959special]

Care to define "Best", and "full-range"? (maybe even define "big"?)

I consider the Vandersteen Model 2's I used to own to be "bigger" but was looking for something with better performance and sound. I guess size is a relative. By full-range, I mean the speaker hopefully produces tones down to subwoofer range, in addition to extended highs.

 

[olds1959special]

Not doubting their specs, but to be 28hz at -3db seems unusual for JBL.
Most of their speakers I have heard or sold over the years, would struggle even doing 32Hz at -6db so that is quite out of the ordinary for them'
They seemed to specialize more in higher output and punchy 50-100hz bass usually.

It would be easy to measure this and check. I watched a movie last night and the bass sounded great. I read the L series was much different from the big box store offerings.

I found some measurements online.

SoundStage! Measurements - JBL L890 Loudspeakers (6/2006)

 

[a4eaudio]

It would be easy to measure this and check. I watched a movie last night and the bass sounded great. I read the L series was much different from the big box store offerings.

I found some measurements online.

SoundStage! Measurements - JBL L890 Loudspeakers (6/2006)

Tracing the On-axis SPL from the first chart in the link above, anechoic F3/F6/F10 is 37.8Hz/30.8Hz/25.9Hz

 

[beagleman]

Tracing the On-axis SPL from the first chart in the link above, anechoic F3/F6/F10 is 37.8Hz/30.8Hz/25.9Hz

View attachment 491543

I was wondering. I mean 2-8 inch woofers can do very low or very loud, but not very low and fairly loud at the same time. There is always some mild trade off.

 

[Hear Here]

What are the best big full-range multi-driver speakers available today?

Avantgarde offer a good range of big full-range speakers.

My own Duo XDs feature twin 12" bass drivers, 7" mid and tweeter. The design is hybrid with built-in twin 500 watt bass amps with DSP.

Their successor, the Duo GT (or Mezzo) is even better (with improved drivers of the same sizes), and is optionally fully active with multi built-in iTron amplifiers.

Physical weight is a good indicator of quality potential (good speakers are never in flimsy boxes) and the XDs are about 100 Kg each.

Trios with a stack of Spacehorns will offer just about as good sound quality as anythng if you have the space and budget for them.

 

[a4eaudio]

I was wondering. I mean 2-8 inch woofers can do very low or very loud, but not very low and fairly loud at the same time. There is always some mild trade off.

Yes, I agree.
I should add, that my post above was just because I wanted to know what the F3/F6/F10 was and looking at the small black and white image at the link was hard to really tell. So by tracing it and re-plotting it I could see those specific parameters.

 

[Purité Audio]

As good a sound quality as anything…

Avantgarde Duo SD iTRON G3 active loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements As Brian Damkroger is based on the West Coast, it made sense logistically for BD to measure the bulky, heavy Avantgarde Duo SD iTRON G3 loudspeaker and send me his test results to analyze. He used the Room EQ Wizard (REW) system (footnote 1), operating at 44.1kHz with a...

www.stereophile.com

Keith

 

[Mart68]

As good a sound quality as anything…

Avantgarde Duo SD iTRON G3 active loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements As Brian Damkroger is based on the West Coast, it made sense logistically for BD to measure the bulky, heavy Avantgarde Duo SD iTRON G3 loudspeaker and send me his test results to analyze. He used the Room EQ Wizard (REW) system (footnote 1), operating at 44.1kHz with a...

www.stereophile.com

Keith

The original Avantgarde Trio is one of the worst loudspeakers I have ever heard. Although I seemed to be an outlier on that amongst the listening panel. Rock recordings were ludicrously badly reproduced - this was blamed on the recordings of course, but even audiophile approved acoustic jazz sounded shouty and hard.

The latest version has the active bass so maybe it is better.

The Duo measures reasonably well and has the advantage that it is genuinely very high sensitivity and a very easy load for the folks who line to use amps from the 1920s. But I've not had a listen to those.

 

[olds1959special]

Tracing the On-axis SPL from the first chart in the link above, anechoic F3/F6/F10 is 37.8Hz/30.8Hz/25.9Hz

View attachment 491543

While the bass was good, I added my 10" front-firing back ported subwoofer (ELAC SUB1010) and set the LPF to 60Hz. This is where the main speakers start to roll off, so it's like a bass boost to 37Hz to 60Hz. Also this bass is not very localizable since it is set so low, so I could put the subwoofer on the side of one of the speakers and it doesn't drive me crazy. It's a compromise since I don't have space for stereo subwoofers!

Edit: I used sound source to adjust the EQ and reduced the 75Hz band by 10 dB and it’s sounding better now.

 

[Pearljam5000]

 

[kawauso]

The Pitt & Giblin speakers look very promising.
They show the kind of cardioid behavior you’d expect from large speakers, along with smooth DI measurements.

 

[Hear Here]

As good a sound quality as anything…

Avantgarde Duo SD iTRON G3 active loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements As Brian Damkroger is based on the West Coast, it made sense logistically for BD to measure the bulky, heavy Avantgarde Duo SD iTRON G3 loudspeaker and send me his test results to analyze. He used the Room EQ Wizard (REW) system (footnote 1), operating at 44.1kHz with a...

www.stereophile.com

Keith

Out of interest, did you post that page of measurements because they were good or because they were bad?

The original Avantgarde Trio is one of the worst loudspeakers I have ever heard. Although I seemed to be an outlier on that amongst the listening panel. Rock recordings were ludicrously badly reproduced - this was blamed on the recordings of course, but even audiophile approved acoustic jazz sounded shouty and hard.

The latest version has the active bass so maybe it is better.

The Duo measures reasonably well and has the advantage that it is genuinely very high sensitivity and a very easy load for the folks who line to use amps from the 1920s. But I've not had a listen to those.

Trios are notoriously difficult to setup optimally and of course require a large room, and Basshorn subs are needed too. I suspect the conditions were not ideal when you heard them. They never sound their best at shows simply because they have to be set up to offer a wider listening area (for the audience at shows) than is the case in your living room where the sweet spot will be small. I do agree that there's a fundamental flaw in that the 3 horns are not vertically alligned.

I have used their smaller models since 2002 when I switched for ATC Active 50 speakers - first to the Uno (Stereophile's Speaker of the Year at the time), then to Duos circa 2006 and now Duo XDs. You'd be hard pressed to find other speakers for the price of XDs that offer a rendition of music in as life-like a way. The excitement factor these speakers offer is enormous - but they need to be carefully set up and the real goosebumps will be at the small sweet spot.

 

[Purité Audio]

The measurements are extremely poor.
Keith

 

[Mart68]

A

Trios are notoriously difficult to setup optimally and of course require a large room, and Basshorn subs are needed too. I suspect the conditions were not ideal when you heard them. They never sound their best at shows simply because they have to be set up to offer a wider listening area (for the audience at shows) than is the case in your living room where the sweet spot will be small.

They were in a very large reception room of an old mansion, not crammed into a hotel room. They didn't have the Basshorn sub and I suppose that would have helped. And like I said of the people present only two of us thought they were bad. Some people were raving about them. I would have put that down to inexperience but one of them was a very elderly and very well known hi-fi journalist who has probably heard more speakers than I've had hot dinners, so who knows?

This was almost ten years ago though and the Avantgarde models have changed significantly since then. The model you have looks quite capable.

 

[Hear Here]

I guess your impression of Trios was influenced by what you are used to, or what you are expecting from unfamiliar loudspeakers. I've never heard Trios apart from as brief listen at the UK distributor's own home about 20 years ago and was not as impressed as I have been with my own Duos. The Trios do need very careful placement in a very big room and with big subs, as the Trio horns alone are not designed to deliver bass. The Duos have 2 integral self-powered 12" drivers and are more suitable in 90% of listeners' homes I suspect.

You'd be very welcome to listen to my system if you are anywhere near the UK South Coast.

 

[Mart68]

You'd be very welcome to listen to my system if you are anywhere near the UK South Coast

Likewise! But we live a long ways apart.

I guess your impression of Trios was influenced by what you are used to, or what you are expecting from unfamiliar loudspeakers.

Yes, that's unavoidable really. My personal reference is studio main monitors. The Trios are a long way from that.

I think that the Trios strengths in doing those 'live' aspects with the acoustic jazz - dynamics, scale, loudness - might have been what appealed to those who liked them. I just thought they sounded unrefined.

 

[EJ3]

…and mysteriously difficult to find the price for these online, at least for a filthy impatient peasant like me!

“If you need to know how much this costs, you can’t afford them.”

If you can find the bespoke price, you can have bespoke color (for a nominal fee, I'm sure), also:

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[EJ3]

It would be easy to measure this and check. I watched a movie last night and the bass sounded great. I read the L series was much different from the big box store offerings.

I found some measurements online.

SoundStage! Measurements - JBL L890 Loudspeakers (6/2006)

Sean Olive's post on Linked in:

Sean Olive’s Post​

Sean Olive
Consultant Available in Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Audio

2y Edited

I don't often post about specific products, let alone brag shamelessly about them. But this new JBL 4329P studio monitor is something I am truly excited about because it is a culmination of science, 75+ years of JBL history and acoustic engineering applied to a product with all the modern features and conveniences: powered, wireless, attractive in a retro kind of way, small form factor, with frictionless usability. Together, these features makes it a compelling speaker choice for audiophiles. Simply plug them in, pair your smart phone/tablet/computer with your favorite streaming app and you're off to the races. If you're still not impressed by the measurements and good looks, give them a listen.The first time I heard them I thought there was a subwoofer connected. But as you can see the measurements are text-book flat, smooth well-maintained off-axis, with extended bass down to 37 Hz before rolling off. The science tells us such measurements produce the highest scores in blind listening tests. After hearing them again this week, I decided I had to purchase a pair. - I don't think there is a product quite like them in the current market.Congratulations to the entire product development team, and the acoustic engineer An Nguyen who is responsible for their excellent performance and good sound.HARMAN International JBL Professional Samsung Electronics Harman Luxury Audio HARMAN Professional Solutions #jbl #audioengineering #loudspeakers

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[RexrothPigeon]

a very elderly and very well known hi-fi journalist who has probably heard more speakers than I've had hot dinners, so who knows?

his ears are elderly too, so it's pretty safe to say his hearing is inadequate for any kind of benchmarking at all

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Sean Olive's post on Linked in:

Sean Olive’s Post​

Sean Olive
Consultant Available in Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Audio

2y Edited

I don't often post about specific products, let alone brag shamelessly about them. But this new JBL 4329P studio monitor is something I am truly excited about because it is a culmination of science, 75+ years of JBL history and acoustic engineering applied to a product with all the modern features and conveniences: powered, wireless, attractive in a retro kind of way, small form factor, with frictionless usability. Together, these features makes it a compelling speaker choice for audiophiles. Simply plug them in, pair your smart phone/tablet/computer with your favorite streaming app and you're off to the races. If you're still not impressed by the measurements and good looks, give them a listen.The first time I heard them I thought there was a subwoofer connected. But as you can see the measurements are text-book flat, smooth well-maintained off-axis, with extended bass down to 37 Hz before rolling off. The science tells us such measurements produce the highest scores in blind listening tests. After hearing them again this week, I decided I had to purchase a pair. - I don't think there is a product quite like them in the current market.Congratulations to the entire product development team, and the acoustic engineer An Nguyen who is responsible for their excellent performance and good sound.HARMAN International JBL Professional Samsung Electronics Harman Luxury Audio HARMAN Professional Solutions #jbl #audioengineering #loudspeakers

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Not big enough for this thread.