BIC EV-15 Eviction Measurements

[JohnBooty]

After many years, I finally took some fairly detailed measurements of the BIC EV-15, following @Dennis Murphy's measurements that showed them to be a bit of a trainwreck.

Here’s my makeshift outdoor measurement rig: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oo5r2fcbhmfvyws/BIC-Measurement-Rig.jpeg?dl=0

I have achieved measurements very comparable to others on other well-known speakers (JBL 3-series, Pioneer BS-22, etc) although I have reason to believe that my mic (a calibrated UMIK-1) may measure slightly too hot in the upper treble region. The mic alignment is a bit off-kilter in the photo; for the actual measurements I used a protractor and level to keep things reasonably correct.

The first set of measurements were taken on the vertical tweeter axis. We’re commendably flat up to 2khz, at which point things fall off of a cliff.

At this point I was considering BIC’s claims of “24Hz-20kHz +/- 3dB” to be downright fraudulent.

The next set of measurements was taken on the midrange axis. Here things look more sane. It is clear to me that BIC’s claims must be based on measurements taken on the midrange axis.

I decided to take another set of measurements approximately 1-1.5ft. above the tweeter axis. Here we can see the woofer and the midrange continuing their epic battle, this time lower in the frequency range.

Objectively, These Speakers Suck. Why Would Anybody Enjoy Them?

Well, lots of people have poor taste and/or hearing damage

I’ve given these speakers lots of praise in the past. Other people love them too, but it is abundantly clear that objectively, there are issues.

They are pretty reasonable on the midrange axis. In my garage, I typically have them placed on 1’ platforms. I did this to reduce floor bounce from the woofers, but a side effect is that I was listening closer to the midrange axis than the tweeter axis. It seems this contributed to my positive feelings.

Motherflipping dynamics. Thanks to massive size and power handling, they can really shine on music with high dynamic range. There are no other speakers in this price range that come remotely close.

Deep stereo bass. Two woofers reproducing deep bass. This eliminates a whole range of typical issues with subwoofers. No crossover issues in the crucial 80hz region. And dual woofers will go a long way toward avoiding the room modes that tend to occur with a single subwoofer.

They actually are objectively very good, at the the most important frequencies. It’s true that they have a lot of issues at 2khz and above. However, most fundamental frequencies in music are lower than that, and the BICs actually perform quite well in that range.

At the end of the day, these are certainly not "audiophile", but I think many would enjoy these as a second or third system in the basement or garage. If you're willing to sacrifice some efficiency -- which wouldn't be a major problem, especially if you have lots of amplifier power on tap -- you could potentially EQ these into something pretty appealing.

Addendum / Updates

I have updated the graphs thanks to helpful feedback from @napilopez. Measurements are gated to 12ms, vertical scale has been changed to 50dB, and smoothing has been changed from 1/6 to 1/12 octave. Additionally, here is the .mdat file from REW if anybody is interested: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmi9e6hghcwy3t5/BIC Measurements Grill Off.mdat?dl=0

 

[JohnBooty]

Oh, and I suppose we should talk about the woofers. Not my photo, but here we can see that the grills do hide those monstrosities pretty well.

Your wife will still kick you out of the house even if the landlord doesn't, though.

 

[mhardy6647]

By my standards, they're practically bookshelves.

No replacement for displacement.

 

[napilopez]

After many years, I finally took some fairly detailed measurements of the BIC EV-15, following @Dennis Murphy's measurements that showed them to be a bit of a trainwreck.

Here’s my makeshift outdoor measurement rig: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oo5r2fcbhmfvyws/BIC-Measurement-Rig.jpeg?dl=0

I have achieved measurements very comparable to others on other well-known speakers (JBL 3-series, Pioneer BS-22, etc) although I have reason to believe that my mic (a calibrated UMIK-1) may measure slightly too hot in the upper treble region. The mic alignment is a bit off-kilter in the photo; for the actual measurements I used a protractor and level to keep things reasonably correct.

The first set of measurements were taken on the vertical tweeter axis. We’re commendably flat up to 2khz, at which point things fall off of a cliff.

At this point I was considering BIC’s claims of “24Hz-20kHz +/- 3dB” to be downright fraudulent.

View attachment 68697

The next set of measurements was taken on the midrange axis. Here things look more sane. It is clear to me that BIC’s claims must be based on measurements taken on the midrange axis.
View attachment 68698

I decided to take another set of measurements approximately 1ft. above the tweeter axis. Here we can see the woofer and the midrange continuing their epic battle, this time lower in the frequency range.

View attachment 68701

Objectively, These Speakers Suck. Why Would Anybody Enjoy Them?

Well, lots of people have poor taste and/or hearing damage

I’ve given these speakers lots of praise in the past. Other people love them too, but it is abundantly clear that objectively, there are issues.

They are pretty reasonable on the midrange axis. In my garage, I typically have them placed on 1’ platforms. I did this to reduce floor bounce from the woofers, but a side effect is that I was listening closer to the midrange axis than the tweeter axis. It seems this contributed to my positive feelings.

Motherflipping dynamics. Thanks to massive size and power handling, they can really shine on music with high dynamic range. There are no other speakers in this price range that come remotely close.

Deep stereo bass. Two woofers reproducing deep bass. This eliminates a whole range of typical issues with subwoofers. No crossover issues in the crucial 80hz region. And dual woofers will go a long way toward avoiding the room modes that tend to occur with a single subwoofer.

They actually are objectively very good, at the the most important frequencies. It’s true that they have a lot of issues at 2khz and above. However, most fundamental frequencies in music are lower than that, and the BICs actually perform quite well in that range.

View attachment 68706

At the end of the day, these are certainly not "audiophile", but I think many would enjoy these as a second or third system in the basement or garage. If you're willing to sacrifice some efficiency -- which wouldn't be a major problem, especially if you have lots of amplifier power on tap -- you could potentially EQ these into something pretty appealing.

Thank you for the measurements!

Seems clear to me that these were designed to be listened to off axis. Midrange driver at 30 degrees off axis I think is the best curve, though the mid driver seems a bit too low for a typical seating ear height. Either way, listening off axis seems like a good idea!

If I may make a couple of suggestions...

-Can you share a gated measurement? You seem to have a good setup for gating there, though maybe there'd be a bit of a reflection from the table. Still, it'd give us a much better view of what's going on in the treble.
-Can you export the image with 25db/octave scaling? Makes it easier to compare as that scaling is much too squishy. You can do this easily from REW's 'capture' button on the upper left of the graph.
-And 1/24 or 1/12 octave smoothing =]

 

[JohnBooty]

Thank you for the measurements!
If I may make a couple of suggestions...

Thanks for the thanks, and also thanks for the suggestions. I'm headed out now, but I will definitely take your suggestions and do those things tonight or tomorrow.

I'll also post the original REW measurement file for those who are masochistically interested!

 

[napilopez]

I'm headed out now, but I will definitely take your suggestions and do those things tonight or tomorrow.

I'll also post the original REW measurement file for those who are masochistically interested!

Thanks - happy to do all those things myself if you share the mdats!

 

[Xyrium]

Perhaps measuring too close to the floor? If they were up on stands (they seem short for the drivers they include) maybe you could get a better FR out of them. Obviously no higher than the middle of the height of the room, but higher than where they are now? Front ports on big speakers like that? I'd be curious what's coming out of them and at what level.

 

[JohnBooty]

Perhaps measuring too close to the floor? If they were up on stands (they seem short for the drivers they include) maybe you could get a better FR out of them. Obviously no higher than the middle of the height of the room, but higher than where they are now? Front ports on big speakers like that? I'd be curious what's coming out of them and at what level.

Please refer to my post - I linked to a picture of the measurement setup. Measurements were taken outdoor, with the woofer something like 4-5 feet from the ground.

As far as "seeming too short for the drivers they include", I would agree. I typically do listen to them on 1ft / 30cm stands.

 

[Xyrium]

Whoops...I glossed right over that. Good stuff regarding the mounting position. Makes sense....

 

[SmackDaddies]

room dynamics matter a lot. I have often thought that a part of a good review would focus on speaker placement and how it impacted the listening experience.

 

[SmackDaddies]

Those speakers belong in a Frat House

 

[tomtoo]

For that money you cant complain about the measurements. And if you add the party fun factor i think they are absolutly ok. HeHe some kinde of superb.

 

[JohnBooty]

Thanks - happy to do all those things myself if you share the mdats!

Here's some updated graphs. What do you think? I'll update the initial post when we've reached some level of acceptability.

I was a little unsure what window value to choose for the gated measurements. 12ms is what I picked, though maybe that was too wide.

Picking smaller values didn't have a major effect on the shape of the FR graphs, so I decided that was "good enough" and I didn't have any major reflection issues mucking up the measurements.

Normally... I'm an experimenter. Normally I'd experiment more myself, and get familiar with how moving the speaker around relative to various boundaries affects the impulse. However in this case, multiple neighbors were doing a lot of staring because of the strange electronic noises blasting from my yard at 85+ dB. They are nice people and I did not want to interrupt their Saturday too much. Also it is the suburbs so I was hurrying to complete my measurements before somebody fired up a lawn mower or leaf blower.

Here's the .mdat if anybody is sufficiently bored: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmi9e6hghcwy3t5/BIC Measurements Grill Off.mdat?dl=0

 

[Xyrium]

multiple neighbors were doing a lot of staring because of the strange electronic noises blasting from my yard at 85+ dB. They are nice people and I did not want to interrupt their Saturday too much. Also it is the suburbs so I was hurrying to complete my measurements before somebody fired up a lawn mower or leaf blower.

Man, I can certainly empathize with this scenario!!!

 

[JohnBooty]

room dynamics matter a lot. I have often thought that a part of a good review would focus on speaker placement and how it impacted the listening experience.

I titled this "measurements" rather than review because I mostly wanted to stick to the objective stuff. Random subjective room-related ramblings follow...

These are fairly sensitive to positioning when it comes to deep bass, as you'd expect from any speaker. Although, they are much less temperamental than a single subwoofer.

In terms of environmental effects on actual listening, the nasty holes in the upper midrange are not a very apparent problem. One, they're outside the fundamental frequencies of most music. Two, the frequency of the "hole" varies based on listener position. Once all reflections are taken into account I'm sure it evens out somewhat.

If I knew how to calculate actual predicted in-room response based on these measurements, I suspect it would confirm the actual listening experience isn't as bizarre as the individual graphs suggest.

This week, I'll try to do some in-room measurements to test out that theory.

 

[napilopez]

Here's some updated graphs. What do you think? I'll update the initial post when we've reached some level of acceptability.

View attachment 68958

View attachment 68959

View attachment 68960

I was a little unsure what window value to choose for the gated measurements. 12ms is what I picked, though maybe that was too wide.

Picking smaller values didn't have a major effect on the shape of the FR graphs, so I decided that was "good enough" and I didn't have any major reflection issues mucking up the measurements.

Normally... I'm an experimenter. Normally I'd experiment more myself, and get familiar with how moving the speaker around relative to various boundaries affects the impulse. However in this case, multiple neighbors were doing a lot of staring because of the strange electronic noises blasting from my yard at 85+ dB. They are nice people and I did not want to interrupt their Saturday too much. Also it is the suburbs so I was hurrying to complete my measurements before somebody fired up a lawn mower or leaf blower.

View attachment 68961

Here's the .mdat if anybody is sufficiently bored: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmi9e6hghcwy3t5/BIC Measurements Grill Off.mdat?dl=0

Thank you! There's a small reflection around 6ms in some measurements but it has a minimal effect on the speaker considering how large the other deviations are. I've never done outdoor measurements before, had not realized how good a job grass does at absorbing reflections!

Anyway, midrange level not toed in (15 to 30 degrees off axis, but more realistically circa probably 20 degrees) seems like the best to me. With 1/3 octave smoothing or psychoacoustic, you just about claim +/- 3dB throughout most of the frequency range

 

[JohnBooty]

Haha my lawn is currently kind of a "best case scenario" for lawns, acoustically speaking. It's pretty plush at the moment. Probably at least as good as a few inches acoustic foam at preventing high frequency reflections.

May not be the case in a week or so since we have a fairly hot and very dry week coming up.

And by mid-August I'll just be happy if there's more green than brown hahahaha

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Just saw this thread. I've been trying to find cost effective ways to improve the BIC, but the drivers themselves have real problems. The tweeter is fine (much to my surprise), but the midrange is a mess. From what I'm hearing and measuring, there's no sound treatment inside the built-in metal chamber. It rings like a bell, with a huge impedance peak that's difficult to deal with. The woofer doesn't go very low for its size. So I ordered what looked like a better sealed midrange for $6, and what also looked like a better woofer for $22. I have everything set up for testing and Xover work, which I'll start after dinner. One question for John--why would raising the speaker a foot reduce floor bounce? There should be less floor bounce cancellation the closer the woofer is to the ground. It still might make sense to do what you did in order to listen on the midrange axis, but I think you increased floor bounce in the process. I'll investigate more tonight and tomorrow.

 

[JohnBooty]

One question for John--why would raising the speaker a foot reduce floor bounce? There should be less floor bounce cancellation the closer the woofer is to the ground.

Sounds like I had a fundamental misunderstanding of floor bounce, then. I was thinking of the bass/midbass null I see in my measurements, whose frequency and amplitude varies with distance from the floor. But I guess if the woofer was on the floor it would be something like a point source and thus no bounce.

The bass did seem clearer to me up on the stands. But that was a purely subjective impression. Perhaps the bass just seemed clearer because there was less carnage elsewhere in the frequency range.

The woofer doesn't go very low for its size.

What amplifier are you using? Just curious. I suspect the woofer might be a bit power hungry? In-room (a two car garage) I get pretty strong response down with boundary reinforcement to ~30hz last I checked. I suppose that isn't terribly deep for a 15".

I have everything set up for testing and Xover work, which I'll start after dinner.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Sounds like I had a fundamental misunderstanding of floor bounce, then. I was thinking of the bass/midbass null I see in my measurements, whose frequency and amplitude varies with distance from the floor. But I guess if the woofer was on the floor it would be something like a point source and thus no bounce.

The bass did seem clearer to me up on the stands. But that was a purely subjective impression. Perhaps the bass just seemed clearer because there was less carnage elsewhere in the frequency range.

What amplifier are you using? Just curious. I suspect the woofer might be a bit power hungry? In-room (a two car garage) I get pretty strong response down with boundary reinforcement to ~30hz last I checked. I suppose that isn't terribly deep for a 15".

Good luck and have fun!

Fell asleep after dinner, so I'm just getting started. The standard woofer is very sensitive--it doesn't need much power. I haven't done nearfield measurements yet, but I'll do that tomorrow or so and compare with the new woofer I got. We may be talking about different definitions of "floor bounce". You seem to be concerned about the added room reinforcement you can get below 100 Hz if the woofer is near the floor or in a corner. The term floor bounce and floor bounce cancellation usually refers to the area around 120 Hz where the reflection from the floor returns out of phase with the direct woofer sound and cancels out, producing a big dip in the response. That cancellation tends to fill in when you get the woofer very near the floor where the reflection is immediate. To be continued.