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Beyerdynamic T1 Review (V2 headphone)

Robbo99999

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Because you know it should ;) But seriously, I think the angled drivers may play a role sometimes.
I think it does, my two favourite headphones have either angled drivers or angled pads: HD560s (angled drivers), and K702 (angled pads)....and it's because of soundstage. I do have HE4XX which is angled pads, but soundstage is good but not great (however it is my third best headphone for soundstage & trumps the other two that don't have angled pads or drivers: NAD HP50 and HD600)....I have a theory that planar drivers don't offer as good a soundstage potential as dynamic drivers but that's a real loose observation.
 

respice finem

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I think there are "soundstage listeners" and "detail listeners", and of course combinations of both - the latter being the most demanding. If you are a "detail listener", you will likely prefer headphones over loudspeakers.
 

Robbo99999

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I think there are "soundstage listeners" and "detail listeners", and of course combinations of both - the latter being the most demanding. If you are a "detail listener", you will likely prefer headphones over loudspeakers.
I generally agree there, but it depends on the music, speakers can fairly easily offer excellent/perfect mids & treble if you choose the right speaker and then EQ it to a smooth Listening Window and flat on-axis tonality (Anechoic EQ) based on Amir's spinorama measurements (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nechoic-measurements-community-project.14929/ ).....and that's something that headphones can't do easily because of our individual anatomy differences (HRTF) and the associated quirks of headphone science.....so accurate mids & treble are probably about speakers. However, like you're intimating, there's detail you can find in headphones that you can't easily find in speakers - bass is the biggest factor, given the fact that headphones don't suffer from room modes so the bass is super clear when EQ'd up and free of interference troughs & peaks....and the lack of boomy & undefined bass in EQ'd headphones means that it doesn't obscure sonic details in the rest of the frequency range.....so headphones really can offer some great overall resolution in general, but the treble area can be a bit innacurate in headphones even if you EQ it to the Harman Curve due to the anatomical differences between people (HRTF). Because I respond well to the Harman Curve (I don't think it's far off my HRTF) then tonality sounds pretty much right on whilst receiving the detail in the bass. I'd say my Anechoic EQ'd JBL 308p speakers excel in music that is bass shy (no excitation of room modes)....classic and modern classic like Max Richter, but you start adding bass heavy music then headphones are expanding clarity throughout the frequency range. If I was able to completely get rid of room modes & fill in all bass holes then my speakers should be better, but until that point I'd say good headphones that are EQ'd are superior in overall fidelity.
 

respice finem

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Yes it's possible, but the speakers capable of detail as good as headphones are rather few, and not cheap, generally. Then, it requires a treated listening room and a small stereo triangle. For the "detail listener", economically and practically, a nice pair of headphones and a proper DAC/HPA may be the best solution. Uneven treble is a problem with headphones, but easily EQed out, compared to treating the room for speakers.
...good headphones that are EQ'd are superior in overall fidelity.
Exactly. There are exceptions (like my current speakers + small triangle + treated room) but it costs money and lots of work.
 

Robbo99999

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Yes it's possible, but the speakers capable of detail as good as headphones are rather few, and not cheap, generally. Then, it requires a treated listening room and a small stereo triangle. For the "detail listener", economically and practically, a nice pair of headphones and a proper DAC/HPA may be the best solution. Uneven treble is a problem with headphones, but easily EQed out, compared to treating the room for speakers.

Exactly. There are exceptions (like my current speakers + small triangle + treated room) but it costs money and lots of work.
Yes, speakers are normally more expensive, but my JBL 308p's cost £300 in a sale (for two), so you have to choose wisely. Re "stereo triangle", it's true that you want to ideally listen to your speakers & listening position at the corners of an equidistant triangle, but it's also true that headphones are a long way off the perfection of equidistant triangle when it comes to spatial positioning of the sound source (because they're strapped to the sides of your head, lol!), but it's true that angled drivers or angled pads seems to mitigate this issue and introduce a bit of normality into the spatial image....that combined with the "unusual" frequency response of the Harman Headphone Curve helps you replicate speakers in a room at your ear drum in terms of frequency response at your eardrum.....so the angling of the drivers/pads combined with the Harman frequency response help create the effect of equidistant triangle speakers. I'd agree that introduction into good high fidelity sound is probably easiest monetarily through choosing the right headphone along with a Harman EQ (for most people), but it's super interesting to also be able to compare that to anechoically flat EQ'd speakers in a proper equidistant triangle in a room.....it's nice to have both I think, educationally & enjoyably.
 

Jimbob54

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If you have the T1 gen 2 and like it then measurements and reviews are basically irrelevant. Just enjoy them and don't worry about it.

I've just got these out of the cupboard and (because I have moved away from Roon) had to re -EQ them using Oratory1990 as a starting point but less bass.

Stock, these are a very hard sell. But they are very comfy and (once EQd) are a very easy and pleasant listen.

Worth the price? Hell no!

But they offer nice detail, are very comfy and pretty light. Not in the same league as the HD800 series or good open planars but I dont consider them a (subjectively) bad pair of headphones. Objectively they are a flaming wreck of course. If someone at Beyer could get these to actually measure well with the current physical design, they might be up there with the best.

No idea what SPL I listen at either, almost certainly not that high given I rarely use high gain on any amp with these and have around 5dB of preamp going on. So suspect the distortion isnt a thing for me.
 

Anmol

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Yes, I have to agree the T1 should have top notch measurements. I can't think of a objective reason one should get the T1 if the DT880 is 1/3 of the price. Still, I think the T1 sounds better, but I can't explain why...
I end up going to my hd800s with amir's eq or he6se dependent on music type. Sundara is good while doing chores around the house. Occasionally verum1 in study room. Verum is a Bit shouty(distortion?) On loud volume but I dont listen very loud.
Here is a thought- akg 371 has excellant measurements but it is a boring headphones. I bought it a while ago based on solderdude's measurements but like him find it a bit hmmm - sterile is the word. So enjoy what you got if you like it. Measurements are great and a good guidance but akg 371 experience was a lesson learnt well -:).
 

Luke Lemke

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I've just got these out of the cupboard and (because I have moved away from Roon) had to re -EQ them using Oratory1990 as a starting point but less bass.

Stock, these are a very hard sell. But they are very comfy and (once EQd) are a very easy and pleasant listen.

Worth the price? Hell no!

But they offer nice detail, are very comfy and pretty light. Not in the same league as the HD800 series or good open planars but I dont consider them a (subjectively) bad pair of headphones. Objectively they are a flaming wreck of course. If someone at Beyer could get these to actually measure well with the current physical design, they might be up there with the best.

No idea what SPL I listen at either, almost certainly not that high given I rarely use high gain on any amp with these and have around 5dB of preamp going on. So suspect the distortion isnt a thing for me.
Back in the day, the T1 was competing with the HD800's apparently. You've mentioned they're not in the same league as the HD800's nowadays. Just out of curiosity, do you think the HD800s' are worth $1500? I'm super curious to listen to the 800's but I haven't found a good deal yet.
 

Luke Lemke

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I end up going to my hd800s with amir's eq or he6se dependent on music type. Sundara is good while doing chores around the house. Occasionally verum1 in study room. Verum is a Bit shouty(distortion?) On loud volume but I dont listen very loud.
Here is a thought- akg 371 has excellant measurements but it is a boring headphones. I bought it a while ago based on solderdude's measurements but like him find it a bit hmmm - sterile is the word. So enjoy what you got if you like it. Measurements are great and a good guidance but akg 371 experience was a lesson learnt well -:).
I was about to get an AKG 371 after Amir's review, but your comment made me reconsider. What are your favorite cans, price no object?
 

Jimbob54

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Back in the day, the T1 was competing with the HD800's apparently. You've mentioned they're not in the same league as the HD800's nowadays. Just out of curiosity, do you think the HD800s' are worth $1500? I'm super curious to listen to the 800's but I haven't found a good deal yet.

No. I got my second hand HD800 (non S) for around £500, roughly what I got the T1.2 for second hand for. I wouldnt pay £500 more for the Senns than the Beyer, but the Senn is £500 well spent. The Beyer would have been more like £200-250 well spent second hand.

I struggle to believe the HD800S (or the nearly released Drop version) wouldnt end up similar to the OG HD800 if both EQ to the same target either.
 

Luke Lemke

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The regular Hd800's are very hard to find. I've quickly checked on ebay (in the US) and the prices are very similar to the 800s. I'm very tempted to get the 8XX from Drop + the $200 store credit. Do you think these are worth it?
 

Jimbob54

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The regular Hd800's are very hard to find. I've quickly checked on ebay (in the US) and the prices are very similar to the 800s. I'm very tempted to get the 8XX from Drop + the $200 store credit. Do you think these are worth it?

No idea, not sure anyone knows how the production device measures. If it has the ability to sound like the 800 and the 800S to the same EQ tearget, then at $900 its worth considering if you will use the $200 drop credit wisely.
 

Anmol

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I was about to get an AKG 371 after Amir's review, but your comment made me reconsider. What are your favorite cans, price no object?
AKG 371 would be a good choice if you were checking on quality of recordings or mastering but not music listening for my tastes. I try and avoid full price where i can and look for deals. between hd800s and he6se - pretty much covers most genre of music. hd800s with Amri's eq is improvement but bottom end lacks punch. otherwise is an awesome headphone with wide sound stage due to size of its cups. to my taste's hd800s is suitable for most pop and classical, especially orchestral music is just breathtaking with it. he6se is perfect for rock, metal , jazz and exceptional for hiphop. something like a a30pro and d30pro and you are sorted for foreseeable future. focal makes great headphones too. if you want to splash some money - check out utopia- with some eq is ridiculously good headphone.
if you are on tight budget - sundara will cover for most critical listening including orchestral and verum1 or HiFiMan HE-400i or other variants of this series for rock, hip hop., jazz. recent topping10 balanced dac or a khadas tone board(put it in plastic transformer box from any electronics hobby shop) and Geshelli archel2/.5 will do the budget trick. oddly i find some shure headphones good too. Again this is just my choice and objectively one can dispute it.
sen hd600 and 650 are legendary with some careful mods can produce excellent results.
 
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respice finem

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One thing I will give Beyerdynamic is that they generally make a very solid, durable product and I find them very comfortable.
Even the el cheapo DT990 are very comfortable indeed. BD have their "Achilles heel" too, the wiring solder joints inside (due to unleaded solder mandatory in the EU). Thus, the newer models can be more "fragile" than the older ones. But it shouldn't be a problem if they're not "thrown around". I keep my last reel of leaded solder just in case.
 

JJB70

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One of my criticisms of Beyerdynamic is that after all these years they still won't modify the DT770/880/990 with removable cables. They must have made a good return on investment on these and they already have a template in the derivative MMX300 gaming headset. It's not that I worry too much about the cable but it is peace of mind if I ever do something stupid. And it is very convenient to be able to swap between long and short cables. That said they are classic headphones and very tough.
 

respice finem

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The 1990 has mini XLR and the T1 Mk2 those funny minijacks (which may make sense if the user steps on the cable). Maybe they want to "lure" customers to buy these more expensive models this way?
 

Sharur

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Even er2se needs the stock foam to boost some highs.
Are there any measurements that support this? When I switch from triple flange to foam it sounds like there is a difference in the treble like you are saying, but when I use a tone generator with one tip in each ear I don't hear the difference.
 
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