Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro Review (headphone)

[amirm]

I'm curious who taught you that and why you feel the need to parrot it honestly.

I am curious you don't know what he stated. It is "common" knowledge. Adaptation is part of being human. This is why you forget the hum from your computer fan after a bit. Your brain starts to filter that because it is a constant. It is a survival instinct to being able to hear what is important (e.g. an animal coming to eat you), from the background noise (wind).

My audience parrots me so I know you're parroting someone lol. You literally just committed broad assumptions. And ignored my measurements showing the change. Very strange.

"Your measurements?" I asked but you didn't answer. Did you measure them and if so, how? If you didn't measure them, then you don't really know what was measured.

 

[GDK]

"Your measurements?"

I think he may be claiming that the Oratory1990 measurements that he cut and paste here are his?!?

 

[amirm]

K anyways I'm done here. Y'all can use it later when you learn to critically think. Cause trust me parrots can't do that.

You are done? You didn't say anything useful to indicate any depth of knowledge here. But if that is the impression you want to leave with us, who are we to complain!

Till then you can wait to be spoon fed another review.

Which will come one after the other. I suggest learning to not be so emotional as otherwise it won't be good for your health. We are just talking about some audio gear.

 

[Maki]

K anyways I'm done here. Y'all can use it later when you learn to critically think. Cause trust me parrots can't do that. Till then you can wait to be spoon fed another review.

 

[wwenze]

Are memes allowed on this forum?

 

[amirm]

I think he may be claiming that the Oratory1990 measurements that he cut and paste here are his?!?

That seems to be the case. I went to look for more background on this fresh vs worn pad and found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/comments/d4lk1i

??? He says fresh pads are better?

And then says this:

So the so called better measurements are when the pads are completely destroyed this way? If the driver is touching the artificial ear, then that is completely out of spec and any usage mode as he states.

If so, this is not a case of "broken in pad" but a headphone with no padding being measured to have lower treble.

It would have been nice to have the above comments on the measurement pdf. It sure paints a different picture than, "here is old pads vs new."

This is why I was asking him about measurement conditions. When something doesn't make sense -- as was the case here -- there is usually a back story that explains it.

 

[tankas]

...Adaptation is part of being human. This is why you forget the hum from your computer fan after a bit. Your brain starts to filter that because it is a constant. It is a survival instinct to being able to hear what is important (e.g. an animal coming to eat you), from the background noise (wind).

Another good example of this - we don't notice/see our noses, though it is always in our (peripheral) view. Brain just deletes it, as it is a constant.

 

[wwenze]

I suspected distance from ear having relationship with treble volume, to explain the new vs used pads. Now that "no pad" configuration adds an additional and convincing data point.

This leads us to a conundrum. In one corner, we have supporters of the brighter original sound because sound is subjective. In the opposite corner, the sound gets better later after the treble is lost from pad wear-out or wtev.

I usually just grab popcorn and let them sort it out amongst themselves.

 

[Killingbeans]

This guy is painful to watch for me...his persona he (most likely) plays for entertainment comes across as very arrogant to me./ which might be the point, what he wants to achieve

Came across one of his videos the other day when looking for stuff about the Sennheiser HD 560S.

I tought it was a form of satire. But now I'm getting the impression that he's serious?

Guess people are really passionate about headphones. I'm starting to understand why Amir was told to brace for a s¤¤tstorm when he said he was going to be testing them.

Adaptation is part of being human. This is why you forget the hum from your computer fan after a bit. Your brain starts to filter that because it is a constant. It is a survival instinct to being able to hear what is important (e.g. an animal coming to eat you), from the background noise (wind).

I'm especially amazed every time I buy a new pair of glasses. It always starts a this huge thing floating around in the middle of my field of view, but after a few weeks my brain filters it out completely. Like you say, it should be common knowledge that the brain "helps" you in the same way when dealing with sound.

 

[stalepie2]

I am curious you don't know what he stated. It is "common" knowledge. Adaptation is part of being human. This is why you forget the hum from your computer fan after a bit. Your brain starts to filter that because it is a constant. It is a survival instinct to being able to hear what is important (e.g. an animal coming to eat you), from the background noise (wind).

How is it known that a preference for the Harman target is not an adaptation? For instance, perhaps it would not have been as popular (the bass heaviness, especially) if the tests were done in the 1950s, when music tastes were different.

 

[amirm]

How is it known that a preference for the Harman target is not an adaptation?

Adaptation takes time. Harman blind tests compare multiple headphones with quick switchover so no adaptation is in play.

Note that adaptation doesn't perform miracles. Ultimately a bright headphone is a bright headphone.

 

[markanini]

First off, the harman target curve is being treated as an objective standard and deviations from it are measured and shown as deviations from a flat response. The harman target is not representative of a flat response. Furthermore, when the beyer trio got in production there was no such thing as a harman target to aim for obviously.

Nevertheless, you can easily eq these headphones to match the harman target. Same way you can eq any other headphone to match the harman target if that's your preference. Stock frequency response has stopped being of any interest these days for most applications. EQ is easy and free. Whatever your own preference curve might be, nobody's stopping you from adjusting any headphone to it.

That's because you have no clue how wrong you are. Harman tuned headphones have been popular for decades before Harmans researchers started working on the target, and remain references to this day. Case in point: Sennheiser HD600 and HD650. A clear pattern emerges when looking at many highly praised headphones that happen to follow Harman: Focal Elex, HIfiman HE4XX, Beyerdynamic DT 250, NAD Viso HP50.

The target is not some novel curve, it's in effect a consolidation of headphone manufacturers internal targets used for their best sounding models, whether tuned by ear or measurement device.

 

[stalepie2]

It originally released in 1988. Perhaps v-shaped headphones helped expose the extreme ends of the frequency response on analog tape decks back then. It is also said to make for better soundstage (reducing the treble worsens this). It turned out to be a popular choice in competitive gaming, like the streamer Ninja who uses them, and led to Beyer introducing the TYGR to cater to that market -> https://www.focuscamera.com/wavelength/beyerdynamic-history-best-headphones-now/).

 

[stalepie2]

Adaptation takes time. Harman blind tests compare multiple headphones with quick switchover so no adaptation is in play.

Note that adaptation doesn't perform miracles. Ultimately a bright headphone is a bright headphone.

I don't see how that changes what I asked. The Harman target might represent a cultural preference that is in vogue in recent times, say since the mid 90s onwards, but would not have been as true decades earlier than that. Look at how much music has changed over 100 years.

 

[wwenze]

I don't see how that changes what I asked. The Harman target might represent a cultural preference that is in vogue in recent times, say since the mid 90s onwards, but would not have been as true decades earlier than that. Look at how much music has changed over 100 years.

Check the date of the most recent Harman target.

 

[stalepie2]

Check the date of the most recent Harman target.

? Where do I do that? But I don't what the point would be.

 

[Adahn]

That's because you have no clue how wrong you are. Harman tuned headphones have been popular for decades before Harmans researchers started working on the target, and remain references to this day. Case in point: Sennheiser HD600 and HD650. A clear pattern emerges when looking at many highly praised headphones that happen to follow Harman: Focal Elex, HIfiman HE4XX, Beyerdynamic DT 250, NAD Viso HP50.

The target is not some novel curve, it's in effect a consolidation of headphone manufacturers internal targets used for their best sounding models, whether tuned by ear or measurement device.

I'll just leave this here. Around 10 mins in you can get your answer. Should also point out that the DT990 was first released in 1985.

And in the off chance you actually care to learn something about this very interesting topic, here's some more.

 

[Sombreuil]

I hope someone has the link because I don't so I'll just write down what I remember reading in a study about burning a pair of headphones.

If I remember correctly it was a laboratory that tried to determine if burning headphones was a thing or not. They took all the precautions they could such as using brand new headphones, not opening the room throughout the whole measurement period to make sure they couldn't move from their stand, etc. The results were pretty clear after a week or so, the only variation they could mesure was so small that they thought that might be due to humidity having an impact on earpads.
So the measurements after X months "that prove" that burning headphones is a thing have literally no values.

I'm not saying the burn thing isn't real, but the only serious study about it was pretty clear, they couldn't mesure it.

 

[boselover61]

I hope someone has the link because I don't so I'll just write down what I remember reading in a study about burning a pair of headphones.

If I remember correctly it was a laboratory that tried to determine if burning headphones was a thing or not. They took all the precautions they could such as using brand new headphones, not opening the room throughout the whole measurement period to make sure they couldn't move from their stand, etc. The results were pretty clear after a week or so, the only variation they could mesure was so small that they thought that might be due to humidity having an impact on earpads.
So the measurements after X months "that prove" that burning headphones is a thing have literally no values.

I'm not saying the burn thing isn't real, but the only serious study about it was pretty clear, they couldn't mesure it.

it isn't real

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

I'm baffled as to how "broken in" pads can cause a change in treble measurements.

After a few months, they start absorbing energy in a very specific treble region?

It's pretty obvious to hear on my DT-880, you don't need measurements to confirm it.
Old pads sound less bright and a bit more muddy.

I had the effect multiple times over the years, whenever I switch to new pads because the old ones fall apart, the can suddenly sounds a lot brighter.
It's probably just the foam going flat and changing the distance to the driver or sth.

And yes: I agree with the Oratory quote: the DT-880 gets uncomfortable to wear once the pads are flat enough that your ear constantly touches the foam above the driver.

I was talking about driver burn-in rather than wear-in of the pads, that dude's YouTube video references 3-year-old pads which is pretty ridiculous.
That's why I specifically mentioned burning them in without wearing them, to separate the driver burn-in and pad wear-in - considering so many people are talking about the DT990s after burn in I thought it'd be a good platform/experiment.

Burn-in occurs over the first few hours of use of a new transducer. Everything beyond that is happening in the listeners head.

That's because you have no clue how wrong you are. Harman tuned headphones have been popular for decades before Harmans researchers started working on the target, and remain references to this day. Case in point: Sennheiser HD600 and HD650. A clear pattern emerges when looking at many highly praised headphones that happen to follow Harman: Focal Elex, HIfiman HE4XX, Beyerdynamic DT 250, NAD Viso HP50.

The target is not some novel curve, it's in effect a consolidation of headphone manufacturers internal targets used for their best sounding models, whether tuned by ear or measurement device.

And yet, it is still a preference target. So there will be people out there who do not like the sound of it.
While it is a sensible place to start and use as a reference to make educated guesses, please do not think of it as gospel that applies to every person 1:1.